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Provigil vs Nuvigil
Does anyone currently take medications to help with excessive sleepiness? I have been on provigil for about 2 months now. I started off with 1/2 of a 100mg pill twice a day. Then I bumped up to taking 200mg a day. I'm currently taking 400mg a day. Still feeling fatigued. My doctor prescribed me Nuvigil (my copay was $45- I'll be looking to get reimbursed). Tomorrow is day one of 250mg of Nuvigil once a day.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jay Polatnick on
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Here's one reply below posted 6 August 2007....I kind of wonder if any of these execs would give these medications to their loved ones, while the profits are lining their pockets ?
For me it was this insidious depression. I took Provigil for almost a year. It really did no more than get me out of bed and walking around. No energy. No being alert. But I figured it wasn't any different than taking dexedrine, etc. in that regard. The plus was that it was easy to get refills.
However, after a time I had an increase in depression. I never suspected the Provigil. The doctor (shrink) didn't know what to do with me. Changes in meds did nothing to ease the depression that was obviously getting worse. My doctor put me through ECT, but I stopped mid treatment because that only seemed to make things worse.
My depression was reflected in my posts. One TAS member recognized what was happening because it had happened to him on Provigil. He offered his experience and I stopped taking the Provigil, just to see. I felt I had nothing to lose.
Within one day the depression lifted and I felt like life was worth living once again. What no one knew was I had already written good-bye letters to my sons. This TAS member literally saved my life. I never see him on here anymore and I owe him my life.
My doctor said to leave it to me to get on of the really rare side effects of Provigil.
You couldn't get me to try Nuvigil for all the money in the world.
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Jay,Allow me to clarify a couple statements you made. First, you said that natural substances have no side effects. That's absolutetly untrue. Heroin is a natural substance, derived from the poppy seed. Other all natural substances include tobacco, marijuana, cocaine, arsenic, lithium (used to treat bipolar disorder, very effective but definitely has side effects), belladonna, and hemlock, to name just a few. Vitamin D can be toxic in high enough doses.Secondly, everyone has individual symptoms with individual causes and contributing factors. There is no such things as a one size fits all type approach that will work for everyone. A nutritional approach has worked well for you and may work for a subgroup of others. Medication such as provigil and nuvigil will help another subgroup. Others will not benefit from one or the other or both. All substances have side effects, including tylenol and nutritional substances, assuming they have any efficacy. ANY substance that changes the body chemistry in a way that positive benefits can be gleaned also has the potential to create negative changes, even if only as how those changes are perceived by an individual. Take a cup of coffee. What one person perceives as a plus of additional energy another may perceive as a negative nervous or wired feeling.It is smart to be aware that ALL medical treatments, medications, AND nutritional supplements carry the potential to cause harm and to be an educated consumer. One needs to weigh the risks and benefits and then make informed decisions. The cure should never be worse than the disease. That being said, living with undertreated sleep apnea, IME, is not living. I went 13 years to different doctors before I was diagnosed with severe OSA/CSA. I didn't fit any of the typical stereotypes for sleep apnea, tall, thin, long neck, didn't snore, etc. The first day I took provigil was the first day (prescribed for EDS before got diagnosis) I felt normal in 10 years, I felt like I had returned from the dead. I was unable to even work. If I had been told provigil would cut 20 years off my life I wouldn't have cared. Since my diagnosis, I use CPAP too, which has been another godsend, but it doesn't eliminate all my episodes, only reduces the number (quite a bit). No one strategy is THE solution, it requires a multi-faceted approach, at least for me.And by the way, because nutritional supplements are unregulated, their purity and dosages are not assured. For examply, a study showed there was a wide range of actual percentages vs. stated doses of chondroitin sulfate found in common arthritis supplements, ranging from under 15% to 110%. In the US, generic drugs may vary by no more than 20%, brand names may vary less, 5%, I believe. Those who inquired about generic provigil, be very wary of any manufactured in India. I've heard the Canadian and Australian generics are good, but they are the more expensive generics. European generics should be fine, too. But just because they are being sold in a particular country does not mean they are manufactured in that country, you need to find out.I'm happy you have found a program that works for you. And since you have something that works, there is no reason for you to pursue medication like provigil or nuvigil. There is nothing wrong with sharing the method you have enjoyed success with, that is what this forum is all about. Just don't assume that because something works for you, it will work for everybody else, and that your methods are "right" and theirs are "wrong". Do you sell these products?
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No, I do not sell any of these products. Honestly, I really don't have enough knowledge about heroin to discuss it intelligently. Using cocaine as an example, there is nothing 'natural' about the way it is unnaturally refined and sold as a street drug. Indigenous tribes have been chewing cocoa lives for centuries without destructive rates of addiction. Dr. Andrew Weil discusses this issue in a great deal more detail in his book 'The Natural Mind'. I've never heard of someone dying from an herb or vitamin, unless they taking an inhuman dose of ephedra. The Chinese have been using that herbs for centuries with no severe side-effects. This is in opposition to the literally tens of thousands of Americans who die each year from prescription drugs. Mind you, not improperly written prescription drugs. The argument goes, 'All medications have side effects and a small percentage might have severely adverse reactions'. I ask you 'Do you or your loved one want to be one of this small percentage' ? Sadly, our dialogue on health in this country is drowned out by Big Pharma and our resources devoted to nutrition and preventive medicine is virtually non-existant. So, we're left with 'Ask your doctor for a prescription' as the avenue to health. Mind you, I would consider the risk of taking a prescription medication only in an acute emergency where there are few other options and the costs greatly outweigh the risks. I just don't advocate longterm use of medications as an avenue for health, but only as a temporary 'patch' until the underlying condition is brought into balance. Big Pharma has an active and organized campaign to discredit natural medicine, constantly releasing questionable studies on the inefficacy of natural substances. One has to ask oneself 'how in the world did our forefathers live to a ripe old age without pharmaceutical drugs ? or was everyone suffering from depression back then without knowing it?' I'm glad you've found a modicum of relief in your condition, but I do not believe you've successfully addressed the underlying cause.
Are you selling Nuvigil or Provigil ? Cheers!
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"One has to ask oneself 'how in the world did our forefathers live to a ripe old age without pharmaceutical drugs ?"
Few did. Children often died before making it to adulthood, and women often died giving birth. Illnesses like diptheria, meningitis, diabetes, and what today would be routine infections were typically fatal. The average life expectancy in America has increased by about 30 years in the last century.
Be careful about making assumptions. I have a great deal of respect for Chinese medicine, as practiced by those who have been trained in the traditional methods. With a skilled acupuncturist, general surgery can be performed without anesthesia. It is a pity it is a rarity to find such practitioners in the US. I, myself have used acupuncture, even got my own needles to work on myself. I sought the advice of a traditional Indian (east India) neuropractitioner after my spinal cord injury. I give him partial credit for recovering beyond my official prognosis. I was told I would never walk again. I walk rather well. Not perfectly, but functionally. I've used other forms of complementary medicine as well. I don't consider traditional and complementary medicine an either/or proposition.
You are right in that neither CPAP nor provigil/nuvigil address the underlying issue. I suffered both a brain and spinal injury. A portion of my spinal cord has been replaced with dead tissue where the blood supply was cut off. I don't know what happened to my brain, they are still trying to find it. But if you come up with a cure for spinal cord injuries, e.g. quadriplegia (which is my official diagnosis, although you would never guess from looking at me, most people think I have arthritis or something relatively minor that causes my "stiffness" and coordination issues), you will be a very rich man. I have since learned that 75% of quadriplegics, esp. high quadriplegics like myself, suffer from sleep apnea. Most, like myself, also suffered from head injuries that were overlooked at the time of trauma due to high level of attention required by the other presenting symptoms. I can also guarantee that without pharmaceuticals I would not have survived. The bladder infections alone would have killed me, as even now, they can ultimately be fatal to victims of paralysis. Christopher Reeves, who was thrown from a horse just a few days before I was thrown from my horse (and my neurosurgeon was in daily contact with his), died from complications from a bedsore. That he lived for several years is a tribute to modern medicine.
I WISH I sold provigil or nuvigil! I'm lucky if I can afford to buy the stuff. I'm hoping my new Medicare Part D plan will cover my new script for Nuvigil without making me appeal and send in paperwork verifying compliance and lack of complete response to CPAP, only to have me end up in the donut hole. But I'm not trying to tell anybody they need to take what I take or that what they take is the wrong treatment for them. I've worked in the healthcare field for over 30 years now and I believe people are both capable and have the right to make those kinds of decisions for themselves.
Coca leaves reduce risk by providing less concentrated forms of cocaine. You ignored my other examples of non-benign natural substances. Poison ivy is also "all natural" but hardly harmless to those who are allergic.
Scale of dragon; tooth of wolf;
Witches' mummy; maw and gulf
Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark;
Root of hemlock digg'd i the dark;
Liver of blaspheming Jew;
Gall of goat, and slips of yew
Sliver'd in the moon's eclipse;
Nose of Turk, and Tartar's lips;
Finger of birth-strangled babe
Ditch-deliver'd by a drab,—
Make the gruel thick and slab:
Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
For the ingrediants of our caldron.
ALL. Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.Macbeth, William Shakespeare
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Laura, I believe you certainly touched upon the crux of the issue with the concept of 'complimentary medicine'. It seems there lies our greatest hope to truly take a step forward in promoting health and wellness, as well as combatting disease the most humane way. Be well and God bless.
Jay
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All this med did for me is make me more alert to how tired I was. Made me anxious but still fatigued. Was not worth the high cost. I think my copay at the time was $50. I stopped it right away. Ridiculous.
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I have been taking Provigil for about 3 years. I started off with 200 mg. Nothing! I went to 400 and then 600mg. 600 worked. My insurance company then said, we only feel 200mg is effective so i was only able to get authorization for 200mg. My doctor gives me Ritilin to supplement my daily 200mg Provigil.
As a side note, I must tell you, 9 hours after taking the above, i crash. I need to take a nap for about 15 minutes then i am good to go! I recently went onto a high deductible health plan. My plan requires me to pay retail for all prescriptions in addition to medical and hospital until I reach my deductible. I went to get a refill for a 30 day supply of 200 mg Provigil. $600!!
Good Luck
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Interesting research study on the natural supplement Piracetam and it's positive effects on Sleep Apnea, particularly by lowering AHI.
http://registration.akm.ch/einsicht.php?XNABSTRACT_ID=70600&XNSPRACHE_ID=2&XNKONGRESS_ID=71&XNMASKEN_ID=900
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When I first started on Provigil, I felt like my old self again...I had forgotten what it felt like to feel "human". But my NP wanted to see if I could feel even better, so she bumped my dose. I started having panic attacks that were predictable based on the time I took the med, so she had me split the dose, resulting in two smaller predictable panic attacks. It wasn't worth it, as I felt so out of control. I also realized that even if I felt better, my body was still not getting the rest it needed; the doctors wanted to use it as a bandaid and let me go...so I went off the med and went in search of better solving my SBD.
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I have taken Provigil and Nuvigil. For me, Nuvigil is better then Provigil. Nuvigil does not give me the "spike high" or "energy rush" I feel better with the Nuvigil. I take it in the morning and it last the entire day. 8am to 8pm 150mg. The Nuvigil is for days that I don't sleep well. I found that when I take Nuvigil, my concentration is a lot better and I can comprehend information I am reading. My advice if you are still feeling fatigued, perhaps you need some adjustment of your air pressure (increased.) If you have insurance, then another sleep study may determine a change in your condition?
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