Hey thanks for the info. What are you using for a cpap and mask? Do you mind if I ask what symptoms you were having when using the dental appliance? I'm just trying to see if your UARS problem is like mine. I'm not heavy and work out almost every day so weight isn't my issue. Oh, I did read your post about having problems the night after an intense workout. I experience the same thing. Every night after a long hike or bike, my sleeping seems worse and I wake up with a faster than normal at rest heart beat.

My sleep study using the Somodent showed an AHI of only 5.5 but around 26 in REM, all "subtle hypopneas". Unfortunately, I only had 16 minutes of REM during the study. My doc said the device is working with no desats below 94 but it sure doesn't feel that way. I found a new sleep doc and next week we're going to do a baseline (no cpap or dental) and a MSLT the following day.

Did you have to take any meds to help adjust to pap therapy? Are you feeling any better? Still using the ZEO? If so, do you notice any pattern changes while using the cpap? My new doc said it's a waste of money but I still feel it works to a certain degree. I noticed how you got slammed on this site about using the ZEO and I didn't think it was very fair.

What is weird for me, is that I no longer had a reference for what normal was anymore, as it had been too long. So, when I took the Provigil, I felt "human" again, and I had forgotten what it felt like to feel human. Now when I wake up with a relaxed body in the morning, I am shocked at how hard my body must have been working while I was "sleeping". I have put in a query with Dr. Park about sleep debt...I don't think he addressed it in his book. I was wondering if it is even possible to make up for 35 years of inefficient and short sleeping.

Hi Sleepsurfer,

A quick update: So I have gone from dreading going to bed because of my CPAP to loving to sleep with my new MAD. I did advance it once after a week. The only problem I have had was falling asleep. Last night I put the MAD in for 30 minutes before going to bed to give myself a chance to adjust, and I fell asleep more quickly. I no longer feel a need to sleep upright. I feel much more rested in the mornings now. I go back to the dentist in a week or two.

How are you doing? You had documented gradual improvement over time. Might that correlate to the gradual jaw advancement as you adjust your device? Been surfing lately?

It was good...I tuned in a little late. It validated everything I have learned and what my sleep dentist has said and done. The sleep dentist interviewed even likes the model of appliance I use. One of Dr. Park's reminders indicated that they would be providing a link if you missed it. The dentist indicated that Dr. Park's book was excellent; the only thing he disagreed with was the use of the boil and bite/over the counter MAD devices

Yes, I will be on the teleseminar tonight. I received a notice yesterday that suggested using a land line, but I am confused about if there is a long-distance charge involved, as it is not an 800 number. I used my cell phone last time to avoid possible long-distance charges, and the clarity was ok, but not great.

I do have an overbite. And when the sleep dentist took the impressions of my teeth/jaws, it was apparent that my lower front teeth have tipped forward again (I had braces as a kid). My tongue is seeking a place just to exist. I am a known tongue thruster, and the orthodontist put some spikes on the back of my braces to prevent me from thrusting, so I learned where NOT to rest my tongue, but not where it should rest properly. Looking back, I think the issue is that my tongue thrust was out of necessity...I can trace the beginnings of my sleep issues back to age 12 which correlates to the orthodontics. I now believe that the tongue thrust was functional for breathing/survival. The ENT confirmed that my airway is crowded (but I didn't think I have a big tongue). Dr. Park stated it from a different perspective: it is not that I have extra tissues, but rather my jaw is too small. He also gave a different perspective on the ENT's comment that my palate and uvula are "moderately long"...Dr. Park indicated that it is likely just an illusion related to how my tongue sits in my mouth.

I have 3 kids who have gone through tongue thrust therapy related to orthodontia. They all say they cannot sleep on their backs, and one is an extremely light sleeper...I would like to get them evaluated before they end up miserable like their mom. At the very least they need to be educated as to what to look for in the future.

I don't know how far I can advance my lower jaw...I will likely do 3 advancements before they see me again. I think there is some room for improvement. Do you know if you have a crowded airway?

I am a physical therapist (I work with kids)...I agree with your wife on the activity thing...take it in baby steps (I can tell that you are an "on the go" kind of guy) Try taking a step back and surf for a shorter amount of time. If that goes well (you are not wiped out afterwards, etc.), then next time add just a bit more time and keep moving forward from there. Be kind to yourself! And it sounds like your wife is a sharp gal!

Hi Mike,

I was fitted for my MAD last week. It is a Somnodent. This was to replace the CPAP that I HATED but wore without feeling better. After the first night, I woke up and my body felt so relaxed and comfortable--better than if I had a professional massage. On Day 2, I awoke with neck pain, but after that I continued to wake up feeling like my BODY is rested. I expected to notice improved concentration and wakefulness, which I think is happening, but the body piece is more profound. I can tell that I am breathing easier; however, I am still tending to seek an upright sleeping position, so I will make my first adjustment tomorrow night.

How are things going for you now?

-Sara

Hi Sleepsurfer! Is this the same Sleepsurfer from Dr. Park's web site? This is Sara. I was not sure if Dr. Park wanted to keep his site for questions directed at him or if he minded others chatting, so I googled your name.

You had asked if I was an exercise seeker in order to feel better. The answer is no. I have 3 kids, and my work keeps me active (I am a physical therapist), and I had gotten to the point where I am too exhausted to keep my eyes open in the evening. However, along those lines, when I told the sleep dentist that the Provigil was helping me a great deal, he referred to me as "an adrenaline junkie".

I am embarrassed to say that I do not remember the name of the dental device being made for me (it was a 3-letter acronym). I was so frazzled by the time I saw the sleep dentist, and my frame of mind at that time was that this might be my last hope, so I just went with what he recommended. It is much like the EMA, but it is more durable (and more expensive).

I am still wondering about Dr. Park's comments about some people needing to use the appliance for weeks or months before feeling significantly better...I am having a hard time picturing myself using the appliance long-term if the positive results are minimal. I would need something to justify the long-term use...maybe it would have to be another sleep study with the MAD that showed a decrease in arousals? You mentioned feeling 10% better since the dental device...can you describe what has improved for you? I would think that the lack of snoring would be an encouraging sign. I am a very adaptable person and in general, a compliant patient, but I HATE my CPAP so much, so I am uncertain about the dental device.