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Oral Systemic Balance (dental device)
Hello, I was asked to post this as a new discussion topic. I wanted to provide some information on the Oral Systemic Balance (OSB). I am not a dentist, I am a professor. I have had migraines for 36 years, have had every treatment from acupuncture to Zanadine (muscle relaxant). The migraines usually came twice a week, and lasted 1-3 days. You can see how this would define my life. I got the OSB (oral systemic balance) dental device from Dr. Lawler, and have not had a migraine in 3 months. I'm one of the people Dr. Lawler has videotaped. All I can say is, I hope the dental and medical communities embrace this research so others can benefit as I have. Dr. Lawler is studying with Dr. Farrand Robson of Tacoma Washington.
Views: 4038
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David E. Lawler DDS D.ABDSM on
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David E. Lawler DDS D.ABDSM said:
Paige, you speak to the point of this discussion when you talk about a tongue retaining device. While not well tolerated by many people, this device could possibly get your tongue out of the back of your throat during sleep. The whole concept behind OSB is that breathing is a 24 hour a day event and for those who deal with the symptoms that we are discussing, managing this tongue only during sleep opens you to the consequences of a tongue dysfunction during the day. Keep in mind that you are swallowing over 1000 times in a 24 hour period and most of this is while you are awake.
I do not mean to imply that a traditional oral appliance worn at night is of no value. I have had one patient who complained of choking on her saliva during the daytime report that she no longer choked after initiating traditional oral appliance therapy used during sleep. So she has gone from not being able to compensate (experiencing choking) to compensating (making what ever postural or muscular changes necessary to not choke). However, this patient maintains a totally frenetic, adrenalin filled life. Would this change with an OSB orthotic during the day? It would be interesting to find out…….
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Permalink Reply by Rachelle Brown on
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I would like to share my experience with the OSB device. I received my device in December so I’ve had it for quite a while now and I’m just as pleased as I was initially. Actually, I’m more pleased because now I am certain that the positive effects I experienced weren’t temporary! I am going to give a “before” picture because I think my experiences and symptoms differ a little. This will be long because I don't want to leave out something that might help someone else with weird symptoms but the short of it is that I received my device in December and I'm just as pleased with my OSB as I was initially. It has changed my life in multiple ways including energy, sleep, pain, and nervous system issues.
I began twitching in the spring of 2007. This was like eye twitches many people occasionally have but occurred throughout my body constantly and they never went away. Along with the muscle twitches (called fasciculations) I would also have what I call muscle jerks when an arm or leg would swing out randomly. You can imagine the distress and even social implications. Generally people weren't aware of the twitches but it was incredibly distracting to be talking to someone and know my cheek was twitching and they might be noticing. It was particularly difficult to fall asleep especially when I was having those "jerking" phases. At the same time I began experiencing other strange nervous system malfunctions and sensations as well as significant nerve pain in my left arm, left foot, and tongue. Fortunately the tongue pain would come and go but the others were constant. All my life I had frequent migraines, neck, and back pain and required more sleep than the average person by quite a bit. I never felt completely rested. In this time frame I was struck with debilitating fatigue. My doctors and neurologists did many tests. My MRI’s were clear and I didn’t appear to have MS which was the initial suspicion nor any of the other serious diseases suspected over time. They did find deficiencies in coq10 and vitamin D. I corrected those with some improvement in the fatigue specifically. But I still “needed” upwards of 10 or more hours of sleep per night and I still woke up tired and was fatigued throughout the day. I was still twitching and jerking. I was still hurting. My doctor did a sleep study which found mild sleep apnea and, if I recall, frequent partial arousals as well. I wasn’t able to tolerate cpap and so did a standard dental device with some improvement. I was still sleeping restlessly and I suspect still partially waking frequently. I was still twitching. I was still hurting. I would have sensations of being unable to breath even while awake at times. So at those times I started trying to wear my night device in the day which didn’t work well! At this time I was not even aware of my abnormal swallow (swallowing was never easy for me) and only “curiously” aware that I couldn’t belly breath even with concentration.
I’m sorry that background was so long but I wanted to provide it in case anyone else is experiencing these types of scattered health issues.
When Dr. Lawler had my new OSB device adjusted he asked me to take a drink of water. I will never forget how amazing it felt to swallow. I swallowed without any effort and it was completely foreign to me. I swallow (and breath) normally with or without my device now as my jaw has moved into a breath and swallow protecting position at this point so even without the device I get the benefits. It is still amazing to me how it feels to swallow.
I sleep eight hours and wake up spontaneously and rested. I go through my day rested. I do not remember ever being able to wake after eight hours without an alarm clock! I never felt any sleep I got was “enough” to feel rested. Yet now I’m rested. I have more time in my day because I need to sleep less. I have energy for my kids. I’m doing so much more with them than I ever did before. This part is sad to me because I wish I had this device when they were younger. We would have had a different life. But I’m so thankful that I have energy now to be the mommy I wanted to be for them.
I have no more pain. This is not just true of my arm and feet but also my back and neck. In the last almost year now I can count on one hand the number of headaches I’ve had.
The most magnificent thing to me is the twitching. After twitching for years I now only twitch if, for some unrelated reason, I don’t get sleep. I was told this was permanent. I suppose it is in that I am going to be prone to it if fatigued but it’s not a part of my daily life anymore.
My husband would agree with me when I say the OSB was the very best thing I’ve ever done for both my health and our family life. I am incredibly thankful to and indebted to Dr. Lawler and I want to spread the word to others who might benefit.
Rachelle Brown
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Thanks for sharing your story, Rachelle. I'm so happy for you. I, too, regret the lost time before getting the device, but I can't complain because I'm so happy about being pain-free now.
Rachelle Brown said:I would like to share my experience with the OSB device. I received my device in December so I’ve had it for quite a while now and I’m just as pleased as I was initially. Actually, I’m more pleased because now I am certain that the positive effects I experienced weren’t temporary! I am going to give a “before” picture because I think my experiences and symptoms differ a little. This will be long because I don't want to leave out something that might help someone else with weird symptoms but the short of it is that I received my device in December and I'm just as pleased with my OSB as I was initially. It has changed my life in multiple ways including energy, sleep, pain, and nervous system issues.
I began twitching in the spring of 2007. This was like eye twitches many people occasionally have but occurred throughout my body constantly and they never went away. Along with the muscle twitches (called fasciculations) I would also have what I call muscle jerks when an arm or leg would swing out randomly. You can imagine the distress and even social implications. Generally people weren't aware of the twitches but it was incredibly distracting to be talking to someone and know my cheek was twitching and they might be noticing. It was particularly difficult to fall asleep especially when I was having those "jerking" phases. At the same time I began experiencing other strange nervous system malfunctions and sensations as well as significant nerve pain in my left arm, left foot, and tongue. Fortunately the tongue pain would come and go but the others were constant. All my life I had frequent migraines, neck, and back pain and required more sleep than the average person by quite a bit. I never felt completely rested. In this time frame I was struck with debilitating fatigue. My doctors and neurologists did many tests. My MRI’s were clear and I didn’t appear to have MS which was the initial suspicion nor any of the other serious diseases suspected over time. They did find deficiencies in coq10 and vitamin D. I corrected those with some improvement in the fatigue specifically. But I still “needed” upwards of 10 or more hours of sleep per night and I still woke up tired and was fatigued throughout the day. I was still twitching and jerking. I was still hurting. My doctor did a sleep study which found mild sleep apnea and, if I recall, frequent partial arousals as well. I wasn’t able to tolerate cpap and so did a standard dental device with some improvement. I was still sleeping restlessly and I suspect still partially waking frequently. I was still twitching. I was still hurting. I would have sensations of being unable to breath even while awake at times. So at those times I started trying to wear my night device in the day which didn’t work well! At this time I was not even aware of my abnormal swallow (swallowing was never easy for me) and only “curiously” aware that I couldn’t belly breath even with concentration.
I’m sorry that background was so long but I wanted to provide it in case anyone else is experiencing these types of scattered health issues.
When Dr. Lawler had my new OSB device adjusted he asked me to take a drink of water. I will never forget how amazing it felt to swallow. I swallowed without any effort and it was completely foreign to me. I swallow (and breath) normally with or without my device now as my jaw has moved into a breath and swallow protecting position at this point so even without the device I get the benefits. It is still amazing to me how it feels to swallow.
I sleep eight hours and wake up spontaneously and rested. I go through my day rested. I do not remember ever being able to wake after eight hours without an alarm clock! I never felt any sleep I got was “enough” to feel rested. Yet now I’m rested. I have more time in my day because I need to sleep less. I have energy for my kids. I’m doing so much more with them than I ever did before. This part is sad to me because I wish I had this device when they were younger. We would have had a different life. But I’m so thankful that I have energy now to be the mommy I wanted to be for them.
I have no more pain. This is not just true of my arm and feet but also my back and neck. In the last almost year now I can count on one hand the number of headaches I’ve had.
The most magnificent thing to me is the twitching. After twitching for years I now only twitch if, for some unrelated reason, I don’t get sleep. I was told this was permanent. I suppose it is in that I am going to be prone to it if fatigued but it’s not a part of my daily life anymore.
My husband would agree with me when I say the OSB was the very best thing I’ve ever done for both my health and our family life. I am incredibly thankful to and indebted to Dr. Lawler and I want to spread the word to others who might benefit.
Rachelle Brown
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Rachelle Brown said:I would like to share my experience with the OSB device. I received my device in December so I’ve had it for quite a while now and I’m just as pleased as I was initially. Actually, I’m more pleased because now I am certain that the positive effects I experienced weren’t temporary! I am going to give a “before” picture because I think my experiences and symptoms differ a little. This will be long because I don't want to leave out something that might help someone else with weird symptoms but the short of it is that I received my device in December and I'm just as pleased with my OSB as I was initially. It has changed my life in multiple ways including energy, sleep, pain, and nervous system issues.
I began twitching in the spring of 2007. This was like eye twitches many people occasionally have but occurred throughout my body constantly and they never went away. Along with the muscle twitches (called fasciculations) I would also have what I call muscle jerks when an arm or leg would swing out randomly. You can imagine the distress and even social implications. Generally people weren't aware of the twitches but it was incredibly distracting to be talking to someone and know my cheek was twitching and they might be noticing. It was particularly difficult to fall asleep especially when I was having those "jerking" phases. At the same time I began experiencing other strange nervous system malfunctions and sensations as well as significant nerve pain in my left arm, left foot, and tongue. Fortunately the tongue pain would come and go but the others were constant. All my life I had frequent migraines, neck, and back pain and required more sleep than the average person by quite a bit. I never felt completely rested. In this time frame I was struck with debilitating fatigue. My doctors and neurologists did many tests. My MRI’s were clear and I didn’t appear to have MS which was the initial suspicion nor any of the other serious diseases suspected over time. They did find deficiencies in coq10 and vitamin D. I corrected those with some improvement in the fatigue specifically. But I still “needed” upwards of 10 or more hours of sleep per night and I still woke up tired and was fatigued throughout the day. I was still twitching and jerking. I was still hurting. My doctor did a sleep study which found mild sleep apnea and, if I recall, frequent partial arousals as well. I wasn’t able to tolerate cpap and so did a standard dental device with some improvement. I was still sleeping restlessly and I suspect still partially waking frequently. I was still twitching. I was still hurting. I would have sensations of being unable to breath even while awake at times. So at those times I started trying to wear my night device in the day which didn’t work well! At this time I was not even aware of my abnormal swallow (swallowing was never easy for me) and only “curiously” aware that I couldn’t belly breath even with concentration.
I’m sorry that background was so long but I wanted to provide it in case anyone else is experiencing these types of scattered health issues.
When Dr. Lawler had my new OSB device adjusted he asked me to take a drink of water. I will never forget how amazing it felt to swallow. I swallowed without any effort and it was completely foreign to me. I swallow (and breath) normally with or without my device now as my jaw has moved into a breath and swallow protecting position at this point so even without the device I get the benefits. It is still amazing to me how it feels to swallow.
I sleep eight hours and wake up spontaneously and rested. I go through my day rested. I do not remember ever being able to wake after eight hours without an alarm clock! I never felt any sleep I got was “enough” to feel rested. Yet now I’m rested. I have more time in my day because I need to sleep less. I have energy for my kids. I’m doing so much more with them than I ever did before. This part is sad to me because I wish I had this device when they were younger. We would have had a different life. But I’m so thankful that I have energy now to be the mommy I wanted to be for them.
I have no more pain. This is not just true of my arm and feet but also my back and neck. In the last almost year now I can count on one hand the number of headaches I’ve had.
The most magnificent thing to me is the twitching. After twitching for years I now only twitch if, for some unrelated reason, I don’t get sleep. I was told this was permanent. I suppose it is in that I am going to be prone to it if fatigued but it’s not a part of my daily life anymore.
My husband would agree with me when I say the OSB was the very best thing I’ve ever done for both my health and our family life. I am incredibly thankful to and indebted to Dr. Lawler and I want to spread the word to others who might benefit.
Rachelle Brown
I had asked Rachelle to respond to this discussion because her case so clearly illustrates the difference between traditional oral appliance therapy that concerns itself with opening the airway during sleep and Oral Systemic Balance which assists in opening the airway while awake as well as while asleep.
I find it interesting that Rachelle intuitively attempted wearing her tradition oral appliance during the daytime. This is information that I did not know. Rachelle was one of the first OSB patients that I worked with. I had contacted her after my initial training because I was aware that her traditional oral appliance therapy was less than successful.
Rachelle talks about immediately noticing a difference in swallowing with her OSB orthotic. I remember her being so excited about the new swallow that it was difficult for her to asses any difference in neck pain at that first appointment. Carol noticed enormous relief of pain within a relatively few minutes as we worked together that first appointment. I have never had a patient report relief of symptoms while I worked with them adjusting a traditional oral sleep appliance. Dr. Robson says that the closer you get to the source of the problem, the quicker are the results of treatment.
I truly don't remember Rachelle commenting about tongue pain when we were working together with her Oral Systemic Balance orthotic. In her initial consultation, Carol talked about her tongue hurting. I am not aware of other patients having tongue pain, but I am not specifically asking about it. This needs to be added to my list of questions that I ask patients! I'm curious if there are others following this discussion that experience tongue pain.
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Permalink Reply by Carl Speas on
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I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study. He said he has never seen a patient with sleep apnea as severe as mine have results this amazing using an oral appliance. He said he was going to put in an order to have my bpap machine picked up. This OSB appliance is a true miracle. Thanks to Dr. Lawler and Dr. Robson for their amazing work.
carl
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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Congrats Carl!
Carl Speas said:I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study. He said he has never seen a patient with sleep apnea as severe as mine have results this amazing using an oral appliance. He said he was going to put in an order to have my bpap machine picked up. This OSB appliance is a true miracle. Thanks to Dr. Lawler and Dr. Robson for their amazing work.
carl
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Carl Speas said:I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study. He said he has never seen a patient with sleep apnea as severe as mine have results this amazing using an oral appliance. He said he was going to put in an order to have my bpap machine picked up. This OSB appliance is a true miracle. Thanks to Dr. Lawler and Dr. Robson for their amazing work.
carl
Carl, there is no question that the Oral Systemic Balance night time appliance has some very powerful effects and that you have gotten an amazing result regarding your sleep study. While this appliance offers advantages that no other appliance has, it is important to keep some things in perspective.
Not everyone may get the stunning result you got from your post-treatment sleep study. Keep in mind that you had some palatal surgery that, by itself, was unsuccessful. It is possible that the absence of some of this palatal tissue assisted the OSB mandibular advancement appliance in keeping your airway open during sleep. AND, there is nothing that I am aware of that would have given you the virtually immediate awareness of breathing better during waking hours along with the relief of chronic head and neck pain and the improvement of balance that you report with your daytime mandibular orthotic.
As I see it, the function of a daytime and/or night time Oral Systemic Balance appliance is to help your body do what it is not able to do due to a lack of proper development of your upper and lower jaws. The upper and lower jaws, the tongue, and the hyoid bone that supports the base of your tongue have a level of importance in human health that we have only begun to realize. When these things are not functioning in harmony during the swallowing process, the downstream effect on the rest of the body can literally reach all the way to the feet. I remember being flabbergasted when I placed an orthotic in one of my staff members and she almost immediately (within an hour) noticed the chronic foot pain that she had been having for months going away. She then reported over the next several weeks that, in addition to waking up refreshed for the first time in years, she could make the foot pain come and go by taking her orthotic out for several hours and putting it back in. This kind of observation is now becoming routine.
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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on
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Congratulations Carl, on so many levels this device has been wonderful for you.
I have found a dentist in my area who does fit them, but he says he fits about 20 other devices depending on Xrays and the needs of his client.
This has gotten to be such a long thread- has anyone addressed the cost of the OSB device. I read somewhere $20,000. I know you can't put a price tag on the relief and of getting your life back. But, would someone quote some prices?
Thanks,
Mary Z.
Carl Speas said:I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study.
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Terrific, Carl!
Rock Hinkle said:Congrats Carl!
Carl Speas said:I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study. He said he has never seen a patient with sleep apnea as severe as mine have results this amazing using an oral appliance. He said he was going to put in an order to have my bpap machine picked up. This OSB appliance is a true miracle. Thanks to Dr. Lawler and Dr. Robson for their amazing work.
carl
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Permalink Reply by 99 on
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congratulations
hope you did not pay for your machine to be taken off of you like that but use it as a barganing chip to purchase your equipment and to lower your out of pocket expences
Carl Speas said:I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study. He said he has never seen a patient with sleep apnea as severe as mine have results this amazing using an oral appliance. He said he was going to put in an order to have my bpap machine picked up. This OSB appliance is a true miracle. Thanks to Dr. Lawler and Dr. Robson for their amazing work.
carl
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Mary Z said:Congratulations Carl, on so many levels this device has been wonderful for you.
I have found a dentist in my area who does fit them, but he says he fits about 20 other devices depending on Xrays and the needs of his client.
This has gotten to be such a long thread- has anyone addressed the cost of the OSB device. I read somewhere $20,000. I know you can't put a price tag on the relief and of getting your life back. But, would someone quote some prices?
Thanks,
Mary Z.
Carl Speas said:I just got off the phone from talking to my sleep doctor from the sleep lab. He called to give me the results from Thursday night's sleep study. He said I had NO! sleep apnea episodes during my study.
Mary I'm sure that there is going to be a very wide range of fees depending on the part of the country you live and the experience of the clinician working with you. Dr. Robson treats many critically ill people who have traveled across the country to work with him and he invests enormous amounts of time and energy helping them recover so his fee undoubtedly reflects that. I can tell you that when I have been in Tacoma studying with him, as I will for the remainder of this week, I have never heard fee discussed.
My suggestion is first get clear that this treatment is appropriate for you from either this discussion, the information in my website at http://www.centerforsoundsleep.com/blog/oral-systemic-balance/ or the video collection of some of the patients that I have worked with at http://www.youtube.com/user/centerforsoundsleep . If you feel that your symptoms match up with those you observe on the videos and want to have this treatment for yourself, find a clinician who you feel good about. Then, when this clinician has a real opportunity to evaluate your condition they will be able to quote you a fee that is realistic for the time that they expect to take to treat you.
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