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Healthcare Reform Bill
Let's pop the cork on this bad boy. I think that the bill has alot of good qualities. I am not to happy about insurance now being mandatory. What do you guys think?
Does anyone have a copy of the amended bill?
Views: 167
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tyger Schonholzer on
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Yeah, everybody just hates social security, especially the aged! SSI/medicaid does horrible things to the disabled, like, pay for their medicine and doctor appointments. Firemen? Who needs them? And the awful postal service. We were so much better off when we used carrier pigeons. Why should we fund schools? Universities? We should just import the brilliant minds from abroad. Why educate our own children? The USDA - so unnecessary and dangerous! How dare they try to keep poisons out of our food? We really should stop the deadgum feds from having their dirty hands in our lives. How dare they interfere with our god-given right to shoot ourselves in the foot?
Walt Service said:Personally think this bill is just another nail in the coffin of our Country. To think that the Fed Gov is going to take over roughly 1/6th of our economy is wicked scary. Lord knows the Feds haven't touched ANYTHING that has gone well. More MDs will be leaving their business...waiting times/lines are going to increase at medical offices...treatments will soon begin to be rationed due to shortages...sigh... The times they are achanging for the worse.
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Washington post has this very useful interactive tool to determine how the bill applies to you at your income level:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-b...
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Permalink Reply by 99 on
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the idea is good but what will the reallity be and what will be the substance and will it be hijacked for personal gain
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Permalink Reply by Martha G. Lee on
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I think everyone should have to buy insurance instead of being given it free am my expense.
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Permalink Reply by Banyon on
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Tyger Schonholzer said:Yeah, everybody just hates social security, especially the aged! SSI/medicaid does horrible things to the disabled, like, pay for their medicine and doctor appointments. Firemen? Who needs them? And the awful postal service. We were so much better off when we used carrier pigeons. Why should we fund schools? Universities? We should just import the brilliant minds from abroad. Why educate our own children? The USDA - so unnecessary and dangerous! How dare they try to keep poisons out of our food? We really should stop the deadgum feds from having their dirty hands in our lives. How dare they interfere with our god-given right to shoot ourselves in the foot
Tyger, you built an argument with a house of cards. Let’s take a quick look at your cards.
Social Security and Medicare
The biggest scam in world history. Medicare has a $36 trillion unfunded liability. Social Security's is $8 trillion. There's no money to keep those promises. There is no tax rate which will solve this problem. Even if our economy would improve to the most robust level economists can imagine, these programs are unsustainable. Both programs will totally collapse with the next 20 years. This is a huge problem for our society and it will affect the world economy in a very bad way.
Fire Protection
Buildings are safer today than ever and there are less fires. Yet municipal fire departments continue to grow, salaries and benefits are bloated and budgets are outpacing the economy. Investments have been made in specialized equipment that is never used. Unions are a big part of the problem. The fire department that covers my residential neighborhood is a volunteer fire department. It is appropriately sized, staffed and equipped to get the job done. To cover unusual disasters, like say a jetliner crash into the neighborhood, they have a well planned agreement with surrounding departments to respond with additional resources. The agreement is reciprocal. Done nicely, done competitevely, fits the local requirments, and no bloated bureaucracy.
Postal Service
Don’t get me started on them. I just went to the post office at 4:50 with three packages and the clerk shouted as I came in the door, “We close at 5:00 p.m.!” I rarely do business with these people because the employees are surly, slow and have an entitlement mentality. A retail business that closes at 5:00 p.m.!! They would never survive in the private sector and they would not survive in the public sector if Congress were not corrupt. UPS and FedEx are both in my neighboorhood at least twice per day and have store fronts nearby where the employees welcome me up until 9:00 p.m.
Government Education
Have you done any reading about how our kids are doing compared to other countries? Do you know that we are throwing increasing amounts of money at government education and the problem is getting worse? Both of my kids recently graduated with honors from the best government high school in a large county. What a shock when they entered a good university – they just were not prepared. Their college friends who went to private high schools were prepared. It took two years for my kids to catch up. If my wife and I had not taught them throughout their life critical thinking skills at home, they might never have caught up.
USDA
When you and I go to the grocery store we don’t look for the USDA label. Instead we make sure we shop at a reputable grocery store and we inspect carefully everything we purchase and inspect it again before we consume it. WalMart does the same thing. They have inspectors that visit their food suppliers for inspections and also inspect when the product is received. Why do we and WalMart do this? Because we know the USDA does not protect us from bad products.
our god-given right to shoot ourselves in the foot
:):)In my gun-handling days, I knew it was my responsibility to keep my feet safe. If I had relied on the government to keep my feet safe, I might well be walking around today with a bad limp. :):)
So "NO, no, no", I don't accept your argument that the government programs you cited are good things.
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99 said:the idea is good but what will the reallity be and what will be the substance and will it be hijacked for personal gain
99, You are trying to be nice. The idea is not good. It is a Utopian idea that history has proved over and over that it is a bad idea. We live in the real world and these Utopian ideas do not work in the real world.
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I don't know much about the Bill myself. Being there are so many amendments being made, I figured I won't look into it until it is concrete,,,, if ever. I have so many mixed feelings, noone should mandate insurance. A friend of mine in another state, her husband had been laid off. She said she could afford cheap insurance, but it did not cover anything, well they got a notice that they will be fined 2k if they do not prove they are insured by a certain date. Now, mind you these are people that are not on any kind of assistance, pay their own medical bills. I am lucky that I have health insurance through my husband, but I see many people abuse the system, as to where it is available to them through their employer and they don't take it and use public assistance. These are the people that need to be fined, and have something done. O.k, I shall stop here but I will return !
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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on
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I don't see health habits changing, the people who abuse the system probably won't change. I think it's a start, everyone deserves health care. I'll get a break on my Medicare donut hole, I'm on expensive medicines, so it will help. I can't imagine all the ramifications. You all have brought up good points. My Medicare Advantage Premium went up almost 50% this year, but hey, I have a lot of health problems and need coverage. One again and finally for me, it's a start of availability of insurance for all Americans.
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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Banyon you are just anti-government with a severe lean towards anit-america. I have not once since becoming a member heard you say much good about anything. Not that your post are not entertaining or educational. You just seem to speak out against everything. Despite the corruption are government has done some good. I do not know why people like you stay in America. Surely there is someplace where a guy like yourself could be happy.
Social security will not fail. As long as people my age pay into it people your age will receive it. That is the way the system is set up. Social security has been bankrupt since it's inception. Yet it continues to thrive. funny how that works. It is kind of funny to hear well off people who receive social security speak out against it. You could always give up your share so that others could receive it.
I agree with you on the Fire safety My mom lived in a small town with a volunteer fire dept. The town I live in now also has their own. They work out well with a limited full time staff.
The post office will continue to make fedex and UPS look good. It also keeps them in check. Without the post office both of them would price themselves out of most americans reach. Corporations are behind the corrupt government that you keep preaching about remember.
It is my right to carry a gun. It is also my right to shoot myself in the foot with that gun. I will not support anyone or anything that tries to stop me from doing either.
Gov't education is screwed and is only going to get worse as the states take over control of more schools. That is more the fault of the people going to those schools than it is the school. If your kids were not prepared for college that is not the gov'ts fault. those who live in glass houses.
the USDA stops more contamination than you will ever know Banyon. Without them alot of people would die.
Banyon said:Tyger Schonholzer said:Yeah, everybody just hates social security, especially the aged! SSI/medicaid does horrible things to the disabled, like, pay for their medicine and doctor appointments. Firemen? Who needs them? And the awful postal service. We were so much better off when we used carrier pigeons. Why should we fund schools? Universities? We should just import the brilliant minds from abroad. Why educate our own children? The USDA - so unnecessary and dangerous! How dare they try to keep poisons out of our food? We really should stop the deadgum feds from having their dirty hands in our lives. How dare they interfere with our god-given right to shoot ourselves in the foot
Tyger, you built an argument with a house of cards. Let’s take a quick look at your cards.
Social Security and Medicare
The biggest scam in world history. Medicare has a $36 trillion unfunded liability. Social Security's is $8 trillion. There's no money to keep those promises. There is no tax rate which will solve this problem. Even if our economy would improve to the most robust level economists can imagine, these programs are unsustainable. Both programs will totally collapse with the next 20 years. This is a huge problem for our society and it will affect the world economy in a very bad way.
Fire Protection
Buildings are safer today than ever and there are less fires. Yet municipal fire departments continue to grow, salaries and benefits are bloated and budgets are outpacing the economy. Investments have been made in specialized equipment that is never used. Unions are a big part of the problem. The fire department that covers my residential neighborhood is a volunteer fire department. It is appropriately sized, staffed and equipped to get the job done. To cover unusual disasters, like say a jetliner crash into the neighborhood, they have a well planned agreement with surrounding departments to respond with additional resources. The agreement is reciprocal. Done nicely, done competitevely, fits the local requirments, and no bloated bureaucracy.
Postal Service
Don’t get me started on them. I just went to the post office at 4:50 with three packages and the clerk shouted as I came in the door, “We close at 5:00 p.m.!” I rarely do business with these people because the employees are surly, slow and have an entitlement mentality. A retail business that closes at 5:00 p.m.!! They would never survive in the private sector and they would not survive in the public sector if Congress were not corrupt. UPS and FedEx are both in my neighboorhood at least twice per day and have store fronts nearby where the employees welcome me up until 9:00 p.m.
Government Education
Have you done any reading about how our kids are doing compared to other countries? Do you know that we are throwing increasing amounts of money at government education and the problem is getting worse? Both of my kids recently graduated with honors from the best government high school in a large county. What a shock when they entered a good university – they just were not prepared. Their college friends who went to private high schools were prepared. It took two years for my kids to catch up. If my wife and I had not taught them throughout their life critical thinking skills at home, they might never have caught up.
USDA
When you and I go to the grocery store we don’t look for the USDA label. Instead we make sure we shop at a reputable grocery store and we inspect carefully everything we purchase and inspect it again before we consume it. WalMart does the same thing. They have inspectors that visit their food suppliers for inspections and also inspect when the product is received. Why do we and WalMart do this? Because we know the USDA does not protect us from bad products.
our god-given right to shoot ourselves in the foot
:):)In my gun-handling days, I knew it was my responsibility to keep my feet safe. If I had relied on the government to keep my feet safe, I might well be walking around today with a bad limp. :):)
So "NO, no, no", I don't accept your argument that the government programs you cited are good things.
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As a senior and based on what I have read, its appears to be very bad for us seniors...so my motto is get healthy and stay healthy.
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Permalink Reply by Renee on
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Hello Melissa,
That’s a good point. First of all the provision for insurance companies to not deny insurance based on pre-existing conditions because of “health status, gender or other factors” does not go into effect until sometime in 2014.
But, Robert Gibbs, the White House spokes person, said at a recent press conference, the insurance companies are bound by the “letter” of the law but they are not bound by the “spirit” of the law. Well, that sure leaves open a lot of leeway . . . eg: what you mentioned – “how about denying coverage for certain medical conditions? My insurance company has been reluctant to cover treatment (including further sleep studies and CPAP, etc) for UARS.” - Or could an insurance company just stipulate the person’s actual pre-existing condition and / or anything / everything potentially related to it as NOT eligible to be covered under the their particular policy. Or not cover RX that people need for illnesses that insurance companies do not want to cover . . .
The insurance companies are left with many possible ways to get around the “letter” of the provision to not deny insurance based on pre-existing conditions. And if – after appeals – the insurance companies are found guilty of breaking the pre-existing ban the penalty is to pay a SMALL fine – ONLY $100 a day!
Plus, individuals with pre-existing conditions will be in “high-risk” pools which will likely adversely affect policy premiums, etc.
Without (under whatever name one wants to call it) – and I DO NOT MEAN A GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM – but, a public option that is run separately from the exchanges that will include ONLY the same large privately insurance companies – I don't see how we will have health “care” or health “insurance” reform.
Renee
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Melissa Enderle said:
-That's great that the insurances can't deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. Now how about denying coverage for certain medical conditions? My insurance company has been reluctant to cover treatment (including further sleep studies and CPAP, etc) for UARS.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Ferranti on
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We've paid for health care indirectly for years. Maybe by paying directly it will give us more input or options. We can't expect change if we keep doing the same old thing. It is a step in the right direction and will help us all. If the people around us are all ill we are more likely to get ill too.
Kind of like a bad apple in a barrel of good ones it spreads faster. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" ever hear that line?
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