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So I was just sitting here thinking..............
About some of my favorites sleep post. I have read many studies on sleep. As well I have been involved, or eavesdropped on a great number of wonderful sleep conversations. One of my favorite theories involves sleep deprivation and creativity. I probably will not do it justice but here goes. Basically this theory states that the longer you stay awake, the more creative you get. The reason for this is that most of us are either right brain or left brain thinkers when we are fully coherent or rational. As we become more and more sleep deprived the lines between the brains hemispheres begin to disappear. Right brain thinkers become left brain thinkers, and vise versa.
The following post is one that I found while scrounging for sleep knowledge on binary. Keep in mind that while binary is a great place for anyone interested in sleep, it is not always pt friendly.
This is one of my favorite post ever:
http://www.binarysleep.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2984&highligh...
Rock
Views: 27
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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it's a Sleep Geek Off! not that there's anything wrong with that ;0 truth be told, i only skimmed the intense clash of perspectives there but the theory that thread is based on is fascinating. i noticed the thread was a couple years old. has there been any new insight into whether the longer you stay away, the more creative you get?
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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on
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This is pretty fascinating stuff, totally different from the conventional thoughts I have about sleep deprivation. There would have to be some pretty interesting things going on for me to consider trying to stay awake for even a few days. I think there have always been books and ideas around about challenging and developing the non- dominant hemisphere of the brain.
This kind of stuff makes me wish I'd been a smarter teenager and not wasted a lot of brainpower on hippie experiments. If there is reincarnation perhaps some part of me will remember this and try to excel in the sciences when I come back. I'm envious of the folks who have these ideas and the means to test them.
Rock, if you're not careful you might end up doing secret research on your patients or at least yourself. Too bad sleep labs are 24/7 or you could sneak in there and play to your hearts content.
Thanks for posting this link, Rock,
Mary Z.
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Permalink Reply by RL on
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O.K., so I read both the binarysleep thread and the other article link. I would not consider myself an expert at all, when it comes to the brain, but I think I am as qualified as the thread poster Tish who states: "I am not a trained scientist, my interest could be labelled 'independent experiential researcher"; she also has a personal interest in having the diet component of Tony's theory find support.
I don't get why trying to break a record for no sleep by one man on one occasion would generate any verifiable data on the so called theory regarding the right and left brain hemisphere's respective needs for sleep. I did learn about the brain hemisphere dominance theories back in the 80's in college, and have had an interest in the brain since before that time. I think I have a reasonable understanding of that theory, which has also been controversial over the years. On the surface, Tony Wright's record attempt appears to be an ego driven effort to prove a personal experience to be valid when the real potentially informative aspects would need to be broken down and defined as separate studies in order to reveal significant observations. (IMHO)
Your original post (Rock) seems to state something different than what I derive from the links - that a person's natural brain hemisphere dominance would reverse under sleep deprivation conditions. I don't get that at all from the links, so is this your own idea, or derived from a conglomeration of other info you have reviewed? Under the concept you note, if right brain dominant persons were deprived of sleep, then they would demonstrate stronger left brain qualities when the communication between the hemispheres would increase due to the sleep deprivation. If this were true, then they would demonstrate less creativity as the left brain activity strengthened. The reverse would result for left brain dominant persons. I don't know that consciousness level is a determining factor in right-left brain interaction, but rather the size of the corpus callosum and perhaps, the number or density of nerve connections in the corpus callosum. Maybe you know more about that from observing brain patterns during various stages of sleep? I do recall that females generally had larger corpus callosums than males, accounting for their greater versatility in processing information. The normal brain, I believe, would be constantly transmitting some energy or communication between hemispheres unless there was damage or extreme development of one side or the other, but the effects of "Split Brain Syndrome" would depend on the unique development of an individual brain. So since most people are left brain dominant, most such people would experience an increase in creativity if this theory were true. I suspect the reverse would not hold up for right brain dominant persons. It makes more sense to me that the relaxation of left brain activity from being awake in a left brain dominated world would result in a similar effect for persons of both orientations.
As a right brain dominant person living in a left brain dominant world, I can say that it is most common for theories to come from the left brain dominant orientation, which can tend to be more linear, which is an inadequate paradigm to conceptualize a right brain understanding of how things work, whether in relation to sleep or other activity. I would be interested to learn more about variations in hemispheric patterns during the stages of sleep if you can recommend any sources.
BTW - I would suggest reading some of Oliver Sack's books which explore brain function under a variety of unusual circumstances. http://www.oliversacks.com/about-the-author/list-of-publications/
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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In further research on Tony Wright I tend to agree with you on him being ego driven. This post was the best support for his work that I was able to find. The article did touch base on the theory that I suggested in my original article, and even went into some unique ways to isolate right brain, and left brain activity for testing purposes. I was truly disappointed that the only follow up on this article has been by me.
As of yet I have not been able to conduct any formal testing on my own evaluations into sleep deprivation and creativity. Some of the best conversations between sleeptechs happen between 3 and 5 am. I find it very curious that lab conversation pick up at the point of being awake 12-20 hours. I have also found that quite a few techs are very active in the mornings when they get off. My own experiences have taught me that I am most creative after being awake 16-26 hours. Which is somehting that happens a few times a month due to work, and family obligations. I also have noticed that I see a dramatic decline in my creative and cognitive process after being awake 30+ hours. As was seen in a recent debate I had with jnk. In this debate we were basically arguing the same point. I did not realize it until the next day when I realized that my own arguments supported his.
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Permalink Reply by Judy on
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Yeah, well, when Golda Maier was asked by Johnny Carson why so many geniuses in the arts, sciences, etc. are Jewish she replied: Well, if the Jews are so d*mn smart why the h*ll did they wander around the desert for 40 years and then settle in the only area of the midEast that has no oil??
She was a tough old bird and I did so love her!
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I would not suggest that anyone try to stay up for days on end. Despite my own observations on creativity, the downside to sleep deprivation is overwhelming. I would not suggest to anyone that they pull an allnighter. If it becomes a necessity pay attention to your body, and mind. You might find your observations as interesting as I have.
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Thanks Judy - this prompted me to do a brief review of Golda Meir's life on wikipedia. Growing up with her as part of regular news reports in the 60's and 70's, it is good to remember her in perspective of history. My high school alma mater stakes claim to her for her brief attendance while residing in Denver, though local demographics have changed dramatically since then.
Judy said:Yeah, well, when Golda Maier was asked by Johnny Carson why so many geniuses in the arts, sciences, etc. are Jewish she replied: Well, if the Jews are so d*mn smart why the h*ll did they wander around the desert for 40 years and then settle in the only area of the midEast that has no oil??
She was a tough old bird and I did so love her!
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Permalink Reply by 99 on
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they have maths out there and have no practial use for them
they are just waiting to be used in a theoretial or practal way
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I had read a thread somewhere else in which some college age people were experimenting with sleep deprivation, noting the feeling of "getting high", and doing it just for that reason. I just thought what fools they were, to not realize the potential health damage they were doing to themselves. At that time of life, many youth still have the sense that they will always be healthy and vigorous regardless of what they do to themselves. There certainly is much to be discovered from people's experiences with sleep, the brain, and other related subjects. I just hope people can find ways to gather information without doing themselves harm. I guess some folks are just going to be "volunteers" in ways that seem outrageous to me, but serendipitously can give new insight in unexpected ways. As Tony Wright has been such a volunteer, perhaps some further insight may come from his experiments with sleep deprivation. Reviewing the summary of Tony Wright's theory on wikipedia gives me more understanding of this subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Wright_(sleep_deprivation)
This overview makes some sense to me, but in the context of history, may require longer to demonstrate than my lifetime or that of Tony's. As for the dietary component, that fits in with some current trends, but faces gigantic political and social opposition. So if some small groups of persons wish to volunteer to strictly follow Tony's dietary theory, and document their long term brain results, this could demonstrate some results eventually. Until then, I imagine it will be the exceptions to the common lifestyle that will occasionally break through and perhaps succeed by "survival of the fittest" leading to larger scale social adaptation.
I say all this while enjoying a snack of half a toasted bagel with melted cheddar and a dollop of peanut butter! (right brain suicide?) Maybe I'm as foolish as college students getting high by sleep deprivation!
Rock Hinkle said:I would not suggest that anyone try to stay up for days on end. Despite my own observations on creativity, the downside to sleep deprivation is overwhelming. I would not suggest to anyone that they pull an allnighter. If it becomes a necessity pay attention to your body, and mind. You might find your observations as interesting as I have.
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