Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Melinda Hertel on December 16, 2009 at 12:05pm

No, you do not lower your pressure if you use the Fisher and Paykel humidifier. However, you can use the H3i--it's compatible with the machine you have. ResMed just upgraded the H3i to an H4i, but both humidifiers are compatible with the first and second series of S8 units.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rock Conner RRT on December 16, 2009 at 12:10pm

I spoke w/ ResMed customer service at 800-424-0737. The H3i fits just fine on the VPAP Auto 25, but it is not powerful enough to provide heat at the flows required for higher pressures. Unless you are hitting 20-25 cm H2O, don't worry about it. Even if your pressures are that high & you are not bothered by nasal dryness, don't worry about it.

I spoke w/ Fisher & Paykel customer service at 800-446-3908. The HC150 should be able to handle the VPAP Auto 25 high end flows.

I'd stay w/ the H3i for the stability. Stand alone humidifiers are more easily toppled than integrated units.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 17, 2009 at 12:08am

Thanks for the information Melinda...........claudette

Melinda Hertel said:

No, you do not lower your pressure if you use the Fisher and Paykel humidifier. However, you can use the H3i--it's compatible with the machine you have. ResMed just upgraded the H3i to an H4i, but both humidifiers are compatible with the first and second series of S8 units.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 17, 2009 at 12:14am

Hi Rock, Thank you so much for checking that for me....That was very kind of you!! I have started experiencing some dryness. Hopefully, turning up the humidity will help..its set on 6 on the h3i humidifier....i will do that tonite...I think you are right....the fisher paykel will be more awkward....thanks again.........claudette

Rock Conner RRT said:

I spoke w/ ResMed customer service at 800-424-0737. The H3i fits just fine on the VPAP Auto 25, but it is not powerful enough to provide heat at the flows required for higher pressures. Unless you are hitting 20-25 cm H2O, don't worry about it. Even if your pressures are that high & you are not bothered by nasal dryness, don't worry about it.

I spoke w/ Fisher & Paykel customer service at 800-446-3908. The HC150 should be able to handle the VPAP Auto 25 high end flows.

I'd stay w/ the H3i for the stability. Stand alone humidifiers are more easily toppled than integrated units.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 17, 2009 at 11:33am

Jeff,

The question re my acquisition of a H4i humidifier is another part of my saga...I too believe that it should have been included with the machine...

It was not included, I was told, because I had requested a new Fisher Paykel humidifier approximately 6 months ago to use with my Respironics. The humidifier was no longer working properly...

It was explained to me that I would not be able to get insurance coverage for another new humidifier in so short a time. I was told to use the Fisher Paykel instead....

I asked the DME if they could submit the paperwork for me to see if any coverage was available...I was told that I would have to sign a paper agreeing to pay for it... before they would submit the paperwork... and that they were 99% certain there would be no coverage. If there was no insurance coverage then I would have to pay them their price which is a little less than double that which I would pay online.

I would like to return the H3i to the person it belonged to...altho she said I could keep it, I would prefer not to...She is resuming her therapy and I feel that she should keep it as a backup for herself.

So either I use the Fisher Paykel or I purchase the H4i online or I go to the mats again....

After the observing the configuration of the VPAP and Fisher Paykel together I agree with Rock concerning its stability.

I do believe that I am using the machine in Auto mode, so altho I dont understand your technical rationale, I do trust your judgment in these matters and will stay with the H3i until there is a resolution to the H4i acquisition question...

thank you..........claudette






I really hate jousting....and am tired of it...but then my sense of justice and fair play rises up and I want to take on the system....but perhaps they are right...and coverage would be denied....but of course given the questioning person that I am...I will have to find out and then decide what I want to do at that time....

In the meantime, I will have to continue to use the H3i until i am clearer about that decision.

And I think about all those who would not even question...How sad that ethical conduct must be questioned in matters such as these. I am actually hoping that they are right..

Claudette




Claudette



















j n k said:

The H3i will work fine for you. No need to get the H4i, although one SHOULD have been included by the DME, ESPECIALLY if your doc wrote a prescription for a humidifier. It is practically unheard of to get a PAP machine without getting the humidifier these days in the US. I would look at your copy of the Rx and see if the word humidifier is on there. If it is, let the DME know you will be stopping by to pick it up because they "forgot" it. They will likely charge insurance for one either way, those sneaky devils. Watch them close.

There is nothing wrong the H3i humidifier; it is just that it is no longer manufactured now that the H4i with a bigger pot and warming plate are on the market. In my opinion, the H3i holds plenty of water and heats just fine.

If you want the Auto 25 to be used as an auto, it is my opinion that using a non-ResMed humidifier is not the way to go.

jeff

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 17, 2009 at 12:56pm

I saw the information re the use of the H4i and it is a concern...and I would prefer to use the H4i...as it is the one recommended by ResMed in the manual. altho now I am aware that the H3i will work.... the DME will submit the paperwork for me...but i have to agree to pay for the humidifier if the insurance does not cover it which i think is the usual procedure...Its just that it is an expensive way to go if the coverage is not available.

They seem to feel that there can be no coverage because I received another humidifier not long ago...and perhaps they are right...

I will be looking into it..... thanks.........claudette

j n k said:

According to p. 2 of the user manual you got with your machine:

"• Only the H4i is compatible for use with these VPAP devices."

Now, it is true you have an H3i, and as Rock says, the H3i will work with it, but that is not information your DME (durable medical equipment company) should know. It has nothing to do with them doing their job.

The point is that the manual specifies that no other brand of humidifier should be used with it, and if your doc prescribed heated humidification for you, it is, at least in my non-professional opinion, ILLEGAL for them not to provide you with the humidifier that goes with the machine they gave you, per the doctor's instructions.

I can understand your not going to the mat again, since the H3i given to you by a friend will work. (Hey, we only have so much mental and emotional energy, and it shouldn't be this hard.) But it might be worth asking the DME if they mind if you, on your own, find out if the doctor, the insurance people, and ResMed agree with what they have told you about the humidifier, in view of what page two of your user manual says. That may change their tune. Or you may have to make the case with your insurance, on your own. But I think we have established that you cannot trust the DME. That's OK, you may still be able to work with them; you just have to watch them like a hawk and force them to do their job. It can be really, really hard to find a good DME, I'm afraid, based on my experiences and what I've read.

jeff

ps- Be aware that DMEs often read these forums.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 18, 2009 at 10:24am

A final note to my humidifier question.....the DME appears to be correct in their explanation that they were 99% certain that I would not get insurance reimbursement....I investigated it all this morning. And insurance reimbursement does not appear likely.

Therefore, I will be looking to purchase the H4i online somewhere...rather than use the Fisher Paykel.

Thank You for taking the time to help me resolve this problem....

claudette paluch said:

I saw the information re the use of the H4i and it is a concern...and I would prefer to use the H4i...as it is the one recommended by ResMed in the manual. altho now I am aware that the H3i will work.... the DME will submit the paperwork for me...but i have to agree to pay for the humidifier if the insurance does not cover it which i think is the usual procedure...Its just that it is an expensive way to go if the coverage is not available.

They seem to feel that there can be no coverage because I received another humidifier not long ago...and perhaps they are right...

I will be looking into it..... thanks.........claudette

j n k said:

According to p. 2 of the user manual you got with your machine:

"• Only the H4i is compatible for use with these VPAP devices."

Now, it is true you have an H3i, and as Rock says, the H3i will work with it, but that is not information your DME (durable medical equipment company) should know. It has nothing to do with them doing their job.

The point is that the manual specifies that no other brand of humidifier should be used with it, and if your doc prescribed heated humidification for you, it is, at least in my non-professional opinion, ILLEGAL for them not to provide you with the humidifier that goes with the machine they gave you, per the doctor's instructions.

I can understand your not going to the mat again, since the H3i given to you by a friend will work. (Hey, we only have so much mental and emotional energy, and it shouldn't be this hard.) But it might be worth asking the DME if they mind if you, on your own, find out if the doctor, the insurance people, and ResMed agree with what they have told you about the humidifier, in view of what page two of your user manual says. That may change their tune. Or you may have to make the case with your insurance, on your own. But I think we have established that you cannot trust the DME. That's OK, you may still be able to work with them; you just have to watch them like a hawk and force them to do their job. It can be really, really hard to find a good DME, I'm afraid, based on my experiences and what I've read.

jeff

ps- Be aware that DMEs often read these forums.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 19, 2009 at 3:47pm

Jeff,

While perusing these discussions, I realized that i did not thank yu for the information in your last comment before my "final note".. It was very kind of you to alert me!....I truly appreciate that!!... and for giving me some direction as to how to proceed trying to get the humidifier from the DME.

Yes, we all have to be careful whenever we deal with our providers in order to get the best care possible....Money always, unfortunately, seems to be the bottom line...

I spent alot of time the next morning talking with the insurance people to find out whether it would be possible to obtain reimbursement. The result of those conversations did not appear to be in my favor . I had obtained the Fisher Paykel in May. No one seemed to care that it was for another machine...no longer being used.

It was a humidifier and to all of them a humidifier is a humidifier with no apparent consideration for the model....and the time frame of that purchase was too close to the present for me to obtain another... they opined. I did a quick risk/benefit analysis and decided that I would forego persuing the DME and the insurance route and waiting for a paperwork determination which did not seem to have a hopeful outcome.

I thank you so very much for taking the time and making the effort to help me to navigate the issues relevant to my treatment....which have become critically important for me.

As I travel around these boards..I see "jnk" responding to so many questions from so many people and with knowledge, depth and interest in helping everyone you respond to.

I am a very staunch patient advocate in general....I know so little about apnea treatment I have nothing to offer at this time...perhaps some day....but I believe that individuals here and wherever else you travel on these boards are extremely fortunate to have you available to assist them with the level of knowledge that you clearly have and your obvious interest in helping anyone in need of information. Your time and effort is laudable!

I have seen little of that level of selflessness in my travels thru the health care maze. I tend to operate more on an emotional level than a logical one at times and being apolitical I have incurred repercussions here and there for my forthright comments. I have not seen many sincere helping hands in other areas as I have seen here.

So it is wonderful for me to encounter someone as apparently devoted as you are to making this arena a better and easier place for those of us who stumble along trying to learn. I dont doubt that I speak for others as well as myself...

You are an incredible asset to everyone and again I express my deepest appreciation to you for your continued and very kind assistance to me.

Claudette




.




claudette paluch said:

I saw the information re the use of the H4i and it is a concern...and I would prefer to use the H4i...as it is the one recommended by ResMed in the manual. altho now I am aware that the H3i will work.... the DME will submit the paperwork for me...but i have to agree to pay for the humidifier if the insurance does not cover it which i think is the usual procedure...Its just that it is an expensive way to go if the coverage is not available.

They seem to feel that there can be no coverage because I received another humidifier not long ago...and perhaps they are right...

I will be looking into it..... thanks.........claudette

j n k said:

According to p. 2 of the user manual you got with your machine:

"• Only the H4i is compatible for use with these VPAP devices."

Now, it is true you have an H3i, and as Rock says, the H3i will work with it, but that is not information your DME (durable medical equipment company) should know. It has nothing to do with them doing their job.

The point is that the manual specifies that no other brand of humidifier should be used with it, and if your doc prescribed heated humidification for you, it is, at least in my non-professional opinion, ILLEGAL for them not to provide you with the humidifier that goes with the machine they gave you, per the doctor's instructions.

I can understand your not going to the mat again, since the H3i given to you by a friend will work. (Hey, we only have so much mental and emotional energy, and it shouldn't be this hard.) But it might be worth asking the DME if they mind if you, on your own, find out if the doctor, the insurance people, and ResMed agree with what they have told you about the humidifier, in view of what page two of your user manual says. That may change their tune. Or you may have to make the case with your insurance, on your own. But I think we have established that you cannot trust the DME. That's OK, you may still be able to work with them; you just have to watch them like a hawk and force them to do their job. It can be really, really hard to find a good DME, I'm afraid, based on my experiences and what I've read.

jeff

ps- Be aware that DMEs often read these forums.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by claudette paluch on December 20, 2009 at 9:57am

Jeff,

I am sorry that you too had to go thru so much prior to diagnosis....I did too...and still am to some extent....I think I am a long way to being where I feel I need to be so that even tho I was diagnosed a number of years ago there are still many issues to be addressed . I do feel very fortunate to have received an updated machine.and to be realizing the help that being here has presented.

The comments I made in my previous entry were heartfelt and obvious to me and to others no doubt. I truly believe that they are true. I do hope that you will be around until I "graduate".

. I have mastered manipulating the machine to some extent and I am moving on trying to interpret what I see in the efficacy data... Is there any particular area that might be logical for me to pursue after I am comfortable with my knowledge of the data that I am seeing there? Just planning ahead.....

Thank you .....Claudette

j n k said:

Thank you very much for your very, very kind words, Claudette.

I have found that participating on the boards is the best way of trying to learn this stuff, myself. So it is partly selfish on my part. The other thing is my trying to pay if forward.

I was pretty bad off physically, mentally, and emotionally before I was diagnosed, and as great as my primary doc and sleep doc and techs were (and are), the thing that got me through it all and turned around and going in the right direction was (and is) the helpful people, both patients and professionals, on the boards.

One of the people who helped me the most with her information, wisdom, and manner was Judy. Over at cpaptalk.com, people like rested gal, -SWS, ozij, SAG, Muffy, Velbor, and of course, Slinky, taught me more than I could ever properly thank them for, so all I can do is to try to help others where I can.

There may come a time when I am not in a position to try to be helpful on the apnea boards; but that's OK, there will always be plenty of people to participate in the work of hospitably extending a hand to the people starting out with their PAP therapy or finding they need to make changes to get the full benefit of PAP therapy. And maybe one day more DMEs will be motivated to be as helpful as the DME people associated with this board are.

The nice thing here at sleepguide is that there are people like Mike, and Dr. Park, and a host of other patients and professionals, who make it possible for people to help one another. I am glad you are finding that it is all making a difference in your life. I know it has made a difference in mine. And I look forward to seeing you pay it forward in the months to come and beyond.

So, you are more than welcome, Claudette.

jeff

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion