Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Wincey Y on January 7, 2010 at 4:22pm

I'm not sure whether (in a quick glance at this discussion) anyone has mentioned the use of a neti pot. My sleep doc told me to expect the occasional sinus infection and that cleaning the equipment is the best way to minimize them. She also told me, though, that I should use a neti pot to help avoid and/or reduce the severity of an infection. Do you know about neti pots? They look sort of like Aladdin's lamps -- you can get them at drug stores these days, or online, or a place like Whole Foods. You put a bit of salt in them, add lukewarm water, and then insert first into one nostril and then the other, pouring the water through your sinuses. It really helps a great deal with sinus infections. I have a minor one now myself, and I'm sure it's from the PAP ... and I haven't been using my neti pot for awhile. I was just about to use it tonight before bed (and clean all my supplies too). See if that works for you. It's a weird feeling, but it does help a lot.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Benedict on January 7, 2010 at 5:46pm

Susan,

I don't wonder that you ain't got any of those cutsie little smiley faces to put on your post. It sounds miserable. So far, I haven't had any problem with sinus infection, knock wood. BTW, I followed your suggestion and went full face mask, instead of Mirage Liberty w/ nose pillows. Feels much better and I don't wake up with air blowing snot out my nose. One thing I've gained a better appreciation for, in this discussion, is cleaning my equipment...especially humidifier reservoir. Hope the infection clears up for you.

Best regards,
Steve Benedict

susan mccord said:

Mike, even as pissed as I am, (and you KNOW I am!) I don't think I would assign "cover-up" to this deal. My gut sense of it is that the MDs who do it are so focused on patients getting treatment, specifically CPAP in this case, and so many people are resistant anyway, that they worry that informing about possible side effects will scare people away from treatment.

I've seen the EXACT same thing happen with oncologists who over and over don't give patients information re: risk vs benefit prior to the patient starting chemo or radiation treatment. Then when some of the inevitable side effects begin, patients get really upset and anxious, and sometimes VERY angry when they find out that it's not unusual. The oncologists tend to say things like "If I tell them what the possible/probably side effects of (whatever treatment it is), they'll develop those symptoms". AS IF!!!

I didn't like it when I was working with cancer patients--I don't like it now. But I honestly don't know if it smacks as much of "cover-up" as it does terribly limited thinking, particularly specialists, re: patients rights to make INFORMED decisions. It's almost as if the more dangerous the illness is, the more the docs just want to treat and not talk about it much.

Don't get me wrong!! I'm NOT defending the practice--good God, after what I've been going through, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. What chaps my ass is that if I'd known what it WAS, I could have been handling it from the get-go instead of having 5 months of misery that, I think, was unnecessary.

Like I told you, before you posted this, my concern (always on SG) is for new people coming in. I don't want anyone to make a decision out of fear, based on what's happening with me. Despite the fact that CPAP is the contributing factor here, and probably will continue to be a chronic issue for me, I'm not even CONSIDERING d/c-ing treatment. I know too much now about how dangerous apnea is. AND I also already have heart disease so I'm double-jeopardy. But even if I weren't a heart patient, I wouldn't stop CPAP. There are just too many reasons to stay compliant.

So here we are again, on SleepGuide, hashing things out and trying to figure out how it is that we can find ways to optimize our (difficult) courses of treatment. How the hell do we navigate the health care system? I was a practitioner for many years and even knowing all that I know about communicating, here I am in a mess because, for whatever reason, I didn't realize I was gonna have to fight my caregivers for information.

It's not news to me, people!!!!! I've seen it happen to a gazillion patients!!!

My youngest son came within an inch of dying from pneumonia 3 years ago because two different MDs didn't listen closely to what was happening to him. WE knew he was desperately ill--they thought he had "a virus". I sat in the hospital with him, all night, every night, and watched him dying right in front of my eyes.....turned out his immune system has been compromised by Type II Diabetes. We didn't know that was even an issue at the time. The pulmonologist who cared for him (from ER on) said he was too sick to move to a hospital better-equipped to care for him, but he saved him anyway. Sweet Jesus.......another totally different scenario than apnea, but same problem. Communication, or rather the lack thereof.

Just my opinion, but I don't think the problem is only relative to sleep specialists. I think it's (probably) rampant among many MDs, for who truly knows what reason. ( I can just hear Dan Lyons right now: "It's a $$ issue--they're just out to make as much $$ as possible!).....lol Maybe he's right. I don't know. But sleep docs are the ones we're concerned with here, so what ideas do any of you guys have?????

I read on the internet that we shouldn't stay on CPAP with an upper respiratory infection (see!, that's the kicker for me--I KNEW on a gut level that I was having side effects although nobody would say that, but it never occurred to me that I have an infection--never even occurred to me. This doesn't have some of the features, at least not yet, of an ordinary sinus infection. But it's some kind of miserable, I know that.....). The kicker, as I understand what I read, is something about pressure on the ears with CPAP running. Don't quote me on that 'cause I didn't study the article, just read it.

I just can't reconcile in my mind a plan that includes stopping a treatment, that everyone says is keeping me from dying in my sleep, for a week. I can't imagine how that's safe. Months ago I'd have probably welcomed the chance to stop!, but not anymore. Now I get it. Now I'm more comfortable with that stupid mask on and the machine running than I am without it. But that's what new people don't know yet.

This is turning into my thinking out loud which probably isn't helpful for what we're trying to sort out, sooooo.....

What do you guys think? I REALLY need some input here. I don't want this to turn into a bitch session, at least not endlessly--but I DO want to know what any and all of you think about the lack of upfront communication.....

Thanks for listening. I wouldn't have posted this till Mike really wanted me to. Now that he's posted it (with my permission), and now that I've started putting it down myself, I'm glad I did.

Thanks, MIke, for encouraging me to speak up about it. I truly DO trust this Forum and everyone on it--have for many months now.

Susan McCord (ain't go no smiles to give away at the moment--sorry.......)

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Permalink Reply by Gordon Osmond on January 7, 2010 at 7:32pm

I suffer badly from the atmospheric pollution caused by the fuel reduction burning of our forests. To combat this problem I add a filter to my air hose. This filter filters out all particles of 2.5 microns and above which includes most viruses. This filter is used in hospitals. I get mine from Fisher and Paykel. It's product number is RT019. It costs me $64 Australian and $19.25 for delivery making an after tax total of $85.18 or $78.16 US. Depending on the air quality, under normal circumstances a filter lasts me about a week but, if the smoke is bad, as little as one night.

If you are prone to sinus infection I would seek out this product.

Does anyone else use these filters.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tamara Bell on January 7, 2010 at 9:23pm

Steve Benedict said:

Susan,

I don't wonder that you ain't got any of those cutsie little smiley faces to put on your post. It sounds miserable. So far, I haven't had any problem with sinus infection, knock wood. BTW, I followed your suggestion and went full face mask, instead of Mirage Liberty w/ nose pillows. Feels much better and I don't wake up with air blowing snot out my nose. One thing I've gained a better appreciation for, in this discussion, is cleaning my equipment...especially humidifier reservoir. Hope the infection clears up for you.

Best regards,
Steve Benedict

susan mccord said:

Mike, even as pissed as I am, (and you KNOW I am!) I don't think I would assign "cover-up" to this deal. My gut sense of it is that the MDs who do it are so focused on patients getting treatment, specifically CPAP in this case, and so many people are resistant anyway, that they worry that informing about possible side effects will scare people away from treatment.

I've seen the EXACT same thing happen with oncologists who over and over don't give patients information re: risk vs benefit prior to the patient starting chemo or radiation treatment. Then when some of the inevitable side effects begin, patients get really upset and anxious, and sometimes VERY angry when they find out that it's not unusual. The oncologists tend to say things like "If I tell them what the possible/probably side effects of (whatever treatment it is), they'll develop those symptoms". AS IF!!!

I didn't like it when I was working with cancer patients--I don't like it now. But I honestly don't know if it smacks as much of "cover-up" as it does terribly limited thinking, particularly specialists, re: patients rights to make INFORMED decisions. It's almost as if the more dangerous the illness is, the more the docs just want to treat and not talk about it much.

Don't get me wrong!! I'm NOT defending the practice--good God, after what I've been going through, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. What chaps my ass is that if I'd known what it WAS, I could have been handling it from the get-go instead of having 5 months of misery that, I think, was unnecessary.

Like I told you, before you posted this, my concern (always on SG) is for new people coming in. I don't want anyone to make a decision out of fear, based on what's happening with me. Despite the fact that CPAP is the contributing factor here, and probably will continue to be a chronic issue for me, I'm not even CONSIDERING d/c-ing treatment. I know too much now about how dangerous apnea is. AND I also already have heart disease so I'm double-jeopardy. But even if I weren't a heart patient, I wouldn't stop CPAP. There are just too many reasons to stay compliant.

So here we are again, on SleepGuide, hashing things out and trying to figure out how it is that we can find ways to optimize our (difficult) courses of treatment. How the hell do we navigate the health care system? I was a practitioner for many years and even knowing all that I know about communicating, here I am in a mess because, for whatever reason, I didn't realize I was gonna have to fight my caregivers for information.

It's not news to me, people!!!!! I've seen it happen to a gazillion patients!!!

My youngest son came within an inch of dying from pneumonia 3 years ago because two different MDs didn't listen closely to what was happening to him. WE knew he was desperately ill--they thought he had "a virus". I sat in the hospital with him, all night, every night, and watched him dying right in front of my eyes.....turned out his immune system has been compromised by Type II Diabetes. We didn't know that was even an issue at the time. The pulmonologist who cared for him (from ER on) said he was too sick to move to a hospital better-equipped to care for him, but he saved him anyway. Sweet Jesus.......another totally different scenario than apnea, but same problem. Communication, or rather the lack thereof.

Just my opinion, but I don't think the problem is only relative to sleep specialists. I think it's (probably) rampant among many MDs, for who truly knows what reason. ( I can just hear Dan Lyons right now: "It's a $$ issue--they're just out to make as much $$ as possible!).....lol Maybe he's right. I don't know. But sleep docs are the ones we're concerned with here, so what ideas do any of you guys have?????

I read on the internet that we shouldn't stay on CPAP with an upper respiratory infection (see!, that's the kicker for me--I KNEW on a gut level that I was having side effects although nobody would say that, but it never occurred to me that I have an infection--never even occurred to me. This doesn't have some of the features, at least not yet, of an ordinary sinus infection. But it's some kind of miserable, I know that.....). The kicker, as I understand what I read, is something about pressure on the ears with CPAP running. Don't quote me on that 'cause I didn't study the article, just read it.

I just can't reconcile in my mind a plan that includes stopping a treatment, that everyone says is keeping me from dying in my sleep, for a week. I can't imagine how that's safe. Months ago I'd have probably welcomed the chance to stop!, but not anymore. Now I get it. Now I'm more comfortable with that stupid mask on and the machine running than I am without it. But that's what new people don't know yet.

This is turning into my thinking out loud which probably isn't helpful for what we're trying to sort out, sooooo.....

What do you guys think? I REALLY need some input here. I don't want this to turn into a bitch session, at least not endlessly--but I DO want to know what any and all of you think about the lack of upfront communication.....

Thanks for listening. I wouldn't have posted this till Mike really wanted me to. Now that he's posted it (with my permission), and now that I've started putting it down myself, I'm glad I did.

Thanks, MIke, for encouraging me to speak up about it. I truly DO trust this Forum and everyone on it--have for many months now.

Susan McCord (ain't go no smiles to give away at the moment--sorry.......)

Have you ever tried ear candling also called ear coning? You can buy the candles in vitamin stores and on the internet.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 8, 2010 at 3:55pm

Steve, I want to thank you for your kind support and encouragement. It's been a rough couple of weeks, and I feel like I just got a "cyber-hug" from you. Greatly appreciated.

Susan McCord :-) (THAT one's for YOU!!)

Steve Benedict said:

Susan,

I don't wonder that you ain't got any of those cutsie little smiley faces to put on your post. It sounds miserable. So far, I haven't had any problem with sinus infection, knock wood. BTW, I followed your suggestion and went full face mask, instead of Mirage Liberty w/ nose pillows. Feels much better and I don't wake up with air blowing snot out my nose. One thing I've gained a better appreciation for, in this discussion, is cleaning my equipment...especially humidifier reservoir. Hope the infection clears up for you.

Best regards,
Steve Benedict

susan mccord said:

Mike, even as pissed as I am, (and you KNOW I am!) I don't think I would assign "cover-up" to this deal. My gut sense of it is that the MDs who do it are so focused on patients getting treatment, specifically CPAP in this case, and so many people are resistant anyway, that they worry that informing about possible side effects will scare people away from treatment.

I've seen the EXACT same thing happen with oncologists who over and over don't give patients information re: risk vs benefit prior to the patient starting chemo or radiation treatment. Then when some of the inevitable side effects begin, patients get really upset and anxious, and sometimes VERY angry when they find out that it's not unusual. The oncologists tend to say things like "If I tell them what the possible/probably side effects of (whatever treatment it is), they'll develop those symptoms". AS IF!!!

I didn't like it when I was working with cancer patients--I don't like it now. But I honestly don't know if it smacks as much of "cover-up" as it does terribly limited thinking, particularly specialists, re: patients rights to make INFORMED decisions. It's almost as if the more dangerous the illness is, the more the docs just want to treat and not talk about it much.

Don't get me wrong!! I'm NOT defending the practice--good God, after what I've been going through, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. What chaps my ass is that if I'd known what it WAS, I could have been handling it from the get-go instead of having 5 months of misery that, I think, was unnecessary.

Like I told you, before you posted this, my concern (always on SG) is for new people coming in. I don't want anyone to make a decision out of fear, based on what's happening with me. Despite the fact that CPAP is the contributing factor here, and probably will continue to be a chronic issue for me, I'm not even CONSIDERING d/c-ing treatment. I know too much now about how dangerous apnea is. AND I also already have heart disease so I'm double-jeopardy. But even if I weren't a heart patient, I wouldn't stop CPAP. There are just too many reasons to stay compliant.

So here we are again, on SleepGuide, hashing things out and trying to figure out how it is that we can find ways to optimize our (difficult) courses of treatment. How the hell do we navigate the health care system? I was a practitioner for many years and even knowing all that I know about communicating, here I am in a mess because, for whatever reason, I didn't realize I was gonna have to fight my caregivers for information.

It's not news to me, people!!!!! I've seen it happen to a gazillion patients!!!

My youngest son came within an inch of dying from pneumonia 3 years ago because two different MDs didn't listen closely to what was happening to him. WE knew he was desperately ill--they thought he had "a virus". I sat in the hospital with him, all night, every night, and watched him dying right in front of my eyes.....turned out his immune system has been compromised by Type II Diabetes. We didn't know that was even an issue at the time. The pulmonologist who cared for him (from ER on) said he was too sick to move to a hospital better-equipped to care for him, but he saved him anyway. Sweet Jesus.......another totally different scenario than apnea, but same problem. Communication, or rather the lack thereof.

Just my opinion, but I don't think the problem is only relative to sleep specialists. I think it's (probably) rampant among many MDs, for who truly knows what reason. ( I can just hear Dan Lyons right now: "It's a $$ issue--they're just out to make as much $$ as possible!).....lol Maybe he's right. I don't know. But sleep docs are the ones we're concerned with here, so what ideas do any of you guys have?????

I read on the internet that we shouldn't stay on CPAP with an upper respiratory infection (see!, that's the kicker for me--I KNEW on a gut level that I was having side effects although nobody would say that, but it never occurred to me that I have an infection--never even occurred to me. This doesn't have some of the features, at least not yet, of an ordinary sinus infection. But it's some kind of miserable, I know that.....). The kicker, as I understand what I read, is something about pressure on the ears with CPAP running. Don't quote me on that 'cause I didn't study the article, just read it.

I just can't reconcile in my mind a plan that includes stopping a treatment, that everyone says is keeping me from dying in my sleep, for a week. I can't imagine how that's safe. Months ago I'd have probably welcomed the chance to stop!, but not anymore. Now I get it. Now I'm more comfortable with that stupid mask on and the machine running than I am without it. But that's what new people don't know yet.

This is turning into my thinking out loud which probably isn't helpful for what we're trying to sort out, sooooo.....

What do you guys think? I REALLY need some input here. I don't want this to turn into a bitch session, at least not endlessly--but I DO want to know what any and all of you think about the lack of upfront communication.....

Thanks for listening. I wouldn't have posted this till Mike really wanted me to. Now that he's posted it (with my permission), and now that I've started putting it down myself, I'm glad I did.

Thanks, MIke, for encouraging me to speak up about it. I truly DO trust this Forum and everyone on it--have for many months now.

Susan McCord (ain't go no smiles to give away at the moment--sorry.......)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 8, 2010 at 4:13pm

Duane--thank you! for the affirmation that I'm not completely nuts with this situation. I've never been allergy/sinus problem/colds prone--have had 2-3 sinus infections over my entire 67 years. This one began within days of starting CPAP back in July '09. I appreciate the new ideas you've mentioned. I AM gonna try the Vicks stuff. What do you actually use? spray/inhaler/ointment, etc.???

The accupressure/sinus pressure info is of interest to me. Don't know much about it but I know pressure therapies and accupuncture therapies work for a variety of problems. Will do some checking around about those as well.

Re: the Indian "nati" you describe--is that the same thing as a Neti-pot? I bought one of the latter, but truthfully, I haven't used it 'cause the thought of it kinda creeps me out. I'm embarrassed to admit that, but it's true. I have one here and haven't even taken it out of the box!!! DUH~

I sure do thank you for all your input on this particular thread. Honestly, I'm having a hard time keeping up with the stress of feeling so lousy. I'm wearing CPAP every night--just finally had to make a decision about it, and I decided I'd rather screw up my sinuses than stop breathing all night long. Since infection got bad, my sleep's gone from fitful to 4 hours, and now last night to 6 hours, all on CPAP, so I think I'm moving in the right direction. Really tired though. Ugh!!

Very glad you're on SleepGuide--you've really helped me a lot with this, Duane....

Susan McCord :-)

Duane Halvorson said:

OK. My first reply to a very lively discussion, but you folks are a diverse and educated crowd.
Here is my spin after twenty years on CPAP. Susan, you WILL notice side effects of CPAP, even with the humifier. I regularly use VICKS, and that means NIGHTLY (after I kiss Deb Good Night, as she hates Vicks [opt.]). The vapor action helps to keep my sinuses clear. This or another Eucalyptus products (or perhaps many others) has become a ritual for me.

I know that we are supposed to keep our equipment clean, but I RARELY clean my stuff: only when it gets a grime film, and Deb fills my humidifier reservoir and she is obsessive/compulsive on cleaning. I use the well water on the farm and have used distilled water only in foreign travels, and even then think it's perhaps a waste, but a good safeguard. The farm water is untreated and I like that. It's 147 feet deep and I've tested it and it's pure.

I DO clean the foam filters every week during the summer when we are at the farm, as there is just so much pollen, and it's even visible, the detritus sucked in! I just use Dawn or Softsoap, soak briefly, rinse in hot or cold, wring out with a washcloth and set aside to dry. Germs cause colds (I just learned over Christmas that there are 151 different viruses which can cause what we see as the "Common Cold" (AARP), so the risk is always there.

Both Deb and I have gone through periods of allergies with MULTIPLE meds and inhalers plus sinus infections for the past thirty-five years. As with most folks, allergies thankfully do seem to come and go. Deb currently has sinus troubles for three years now and I am symptom free!

OK. I believe in accupunture and we use accupressure (plus do yoga) nightly to ease aches and pains and accupressure is INCREDIBLY good for relieving SINUS PRESSURE. I leared accupressure in the early '70's and you can find good books everywhere! It's just standard Chinese and universal medicine/self treatment. PLEASE TRY SINUS MASSAGE and POINT PRESSURE for relief. It really DOES work, and Deb was not a believer until I used it for her sinuses and now her back. I just zoom in naturally and you can clear your head, relieve headaches, etc. all in five minutes. NOTE: Buy book on ACCUPRESSURE or visit your local library.

Indian Medicine uses "Nati", which is really NASTY! It's a salt water daily nasal douche! Some of the members in our Yoga group do this, but most folks only try it once or in my case three or four times! If you want a horrible, buring sensation throughout your head and nasal cavities, try Nati. I guess that it's a cultural thing, and I've spent two summers in India (many years ago) and they have many good things, but I would SKIP the Nati! Good Luck to you! Duane in North Dakota

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 8, 2010 at 4:19pm

Gordon Osmond said:

I suffer badly from the atmospheric pollution caused by the fuel reduction burning of our forests. To combat this problem I add a filter to my air hose. This filter filters out all particles of 2.5 microns and above which includes most viruses. This filter is used in hospitals. I get mine from Fisher and Paykel. It's product number is RT019. It costs me $64 Australian and $19.25 for delivery making an after tax total of $85.18 or $78.16 US. Depending on the air quality, under normal circumstances a filter lasts me about a week but, if the smoke is bad, as little as one night.

If you are prone to sinus infection I would seek out this product.

Does anyone else use these filters.

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 8, 2010 at 4:21pm

Gordon, I don't use a filter like that. Don't think I really need one, but if I could afford it, I'd probably give it a try. No longer than they seem to last, I can't afford it--I'm on a fixed income which is adequate but doesn't allow for that kind of ongoing expense. I'm glad they help you though. Sounds like a tough environment to manage....

Thanks for your support!

Susan McCord :-)

susan mccord said:

Gordon Osmond said:

I suffer badly from the atmospheric pollution caused by the fuel reduction burning of our forests. To combat this problem I add a filter to my air hose. This filter filters out all particles of 2.5 microns and above which includes most viruses. This filter is used in hospitals. I get mine from Fisher and Paykel. It's product number is RT019. It costs me $64 Australian and $19.25 for delivery making an after tax total of $85.18 or $78.16 US. Depending on the air quality, under normal circumstances a filter lasts me about a week but, if the smoke is bad, as little as one night.

If you are prone to sinus infection I would seek out this product.

Does anyone else use these filters.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 8, 2010 at 4:37pm

Wincey Y, I think I've said on here (admitted actually!) that I have a Neti pot that I haven't even taken out of the box. It makes me feel weird thinking about using it--not sure why. It's the thought of it which is silly if it helps. I've heard from a # of people who, like you, use them and endorse them. Did you feel weird when you first started using yours? or am I just being neurotic??? That IS a distinct possibility, but common sense is telling me I should get over it--too many people are having positive results to just ignore it.....

Thank you for your thoughtful advice.

Susan McCord :-)

Wincey Y said:

I'm not sure whether (in a quick glance at this discussion) anyone has mentioned the use of a neti pot. My sleep doc told me to expect the occasional sinus infection and that cleaning the equipment is the best way to minimize them. She also told me, though, that I should use a neti pot to help avoid and/or reduce the severity of an infection. Do you know about neti pots? They look sort of like Aladdin's lamps -- you can get them at drug stores these days, or online, or a place like Whole Foods. You put a bit of salt in them, add lukewarm water, and then insert first into one nostril and then the other, pouring the water through your sinuses. It really helps a great deal with sinus infections. I have a minor one now myself, and I'm sure it's from the PAP ... and I haven't been using my neti pot for awhile. I was just about to use it tonight before bed (and clean all my supplies too). See if that works for you. It's a weird feeling, but it does help a lot.

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Permalink Reply by Sandra King on January 9, 2010 at 2:56am

RL, your allergy problems sound very familiar to me. I live in Ft. Worth (moved here almost 10 years ago) and the allergy problems here are really bad. My husband and I have been taking Loratadine everyday for a few years and also use a Saline Nasal Spray. I have very mild SA and was diagnosed 1 year ago. My sleep doctor prescibed Flonase (generic - Fluticasone Propionate), which he said to use about 30 minutes before bedtime, to give it time to work. I have also used Breathe Right Strips (my nasal passages are small and when I lay down, they seem to close up without them) for about 15 years. My husband (who does not have SA) and I had severe allergies and colds for about 2 or 3 weeks over Christmas, with lots of sneezing at first and a runny nose and occasional headache and congestion. We went through several boxes of Benadryl Allergy Sinus Headache. We were in Baton Rouge for about a week over Christmas and it did not clear up.

I finally remembered one thing that we both had been using for the last couple years and had run out of around Thanksgiving was Allergena Allergy Relief Zone 5. I bought some more of it and started using the drops everyday and the allergies cleared up in just a few days use. Zone 5 is a homeopathic blend of over 120 Antigens, for allergies of Trees, Weeds, and Grasses. The directions say to take 10-15 drops under the tongue three times a day. I warn you though, it tastes terrible. Zone 5 is a mix of all of the Trees, Weeds, and Grasses found in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas, that's one reason why it tastes so bad. It gradually desensitizes your body to these Antigens, resulting in better control of symptoms. Looking on the website: www.progena.com/shop/en/allergena.html you can find the zone that you live in. RL, I believe you would need Zone 6 - Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah. I purchase mine at Central Market, but you can purchase them from the Allergena website online for the same price. I only use them two times a day, and a 2oz. bottle lasts for about 3 months or so.

Also, since I have always been a mouth breather, I was first prescribed with an Ultra-Mirage Full Face Mask, which has kept me fully compliant when I am congested and also for the whole of this last year. I was about 145 pounds overweight and since using CPAP, I have been motivated to lose weight. On May 26, 2009, I started going to Slim4Life, which is only located in the Kansas City and Dallas/Ft. Worth areas. As of today, I have lost 85 lbs. and still have about 60 to go. Because of the weight loss and the changing shape of my face (the place I lose weight first), I have tried several different masks over the last few months, because of air leakage. In October, I started having problem with burping air, while using CPAP. When it got to the point that it started hurting my lungs, I had to stop using the CPAP and use about 3 pillows to elevate my upper body so that I could sleep sitting up. I do not sleep that well in a recliner. I began to think that my air pressure was set too high, so I called my sleep doctor to see if I could get my pressure lowered. They had me come in and told me that they could not lower it without first having another sleep study done.

One week before Thanksgiving, I had another sleep study done. I went back to my sleep doctor the next week and they were able to lower my air pressure from a 9 to a 6. He said that I had 1 apnea at a 6 and if I wanted to get rid of them completely, I could be at a 7, but I chose to go with the 6, since I am still losing weight. I should have all my excess weight off and start maintenance by May. I asked my sleep doctor if I would have to used CPAP the rest of my life and he said, that in my case, hopefully I would only need it for a few more months, if I continued to lose weight. I also asked about how often my insurance would pay for a sleep study, and he said they would pay for another study after 20 lbs. of weight loss. Because of everything that I have read, and maybe since I am a perfectionist, I will not stop using CPAP therapy until my sleep doctor says it is ok. During this last year, I have discovered a few of my relatives using CPAP therapy and a few more that probably need it. Most of those relatives are overweight also, but we are now working on that.

I clean my mask, I'm back to using the Ultra Mirage Full Face, every morning, disconnect and hang my hose over the headboard to dry every morning and used distilled water in the heated humidifier. I admit that I do not clean the water chamber often enough, but I keep the filters clean and changed regularly on my machine. I have a very sensitive nose and sometimes smell different things while wearing the mask. Last week, I started using aromatherapy for my CPAP. I purchased a starter pack from www.cpap.com which includes about 13 different scented oils to try. You place a drop or two on one of the included pads and place that in the included stand. I place the stand on my nightstand, right behind the filter to my CPAP machine. I have tried about 5 different oils so far. The air through my CPAP mask sure smells better than the plasticky scent of my CPAP mask. Also, I have been sleeping more hours during the night, since starting aromatherapy. I hope that some of my experiences will help some of you. Now it is time for me to go try another new scent. Nighty night.

RL said:

Just getting started with my CPAP, a little over a week, I am reviewing this subject carefully. I have had sinus problems ongoing for so long, I thought that was my biggest problem before I learned about SA. I had an allergy test in mid 2009, showing allergy to grasses, weeds and trees. I also notice a difference on days with higher pollution levels (Denver metro area). I had a "cold" the week before I got my CPAP, but thought it was mostly cleared up by the time I started with the CPAP. I have had very good success using my CPAP with nasal pillow mask and oxygen, with heated humidifier, though not feeling much energy yet. Though I have much less tiredness and brain fog in the morning, I still start to feel significantly tired by mid afternoon. I was thinking this was going to take some time, as I may be more oxygen depleted than I knew. Also, I am thinking that my cold was still lingering. I did notice a little yellow mucus a few mornings, despite using a new antihistamine nasal spray - Astelin. I did not think this was doing much for me, so I called my PCP, as I also had sinus and ear pressure and mild pain. My PCP immediately gave me an antibiotic script (without my asking), and another nasal spray we had talked about - Fluticasone Propionate, a corticosteroid. I think the antibiotic helped but not sure if it was enough, and will be using the corticosteroid nasal spray for about a month until it is gone, to reduce inflamation and congestion. Yesterday, I had a sinus (?) headache that I treated with ibuprofen, a half dose of sudafed decongestant, and loratadine (generic Claritin). This combo, along with the nasal spray did allow me to sleep well with my CPAP, though the sinus pressure is not completely gone. I have relied on these OTC medications so much in the past few years that I was concerned about them affecting my overall health. I see that I will need to monitor this closely, and make sure to keep my equipment very clean.
I also was wondering about the potential effect of the CPAP air pressure to push bacteria already in the nasal passages deeper into the sinuses, making it more difficult for the body to flush it out. I am also wondering what the best course of action is for myself - to lay off the CPAP to get the sinus infection cleared, or keep using it. I sooo want this CPAP treatment to work. I'm tired of being tired. I am also trying to increase my use of Nielmed Nasal Wash, which I recommend for keeping the nasal passages hydrated and flushing out bacteria and allergens. Another thing I have begun using occasionally is to eat a raw clove of garlic, chopped up in food, for it's natural antibiotic action.

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Permalink Reply by sleepycarol on January 9, 2010 at 11:16am

Since I was in grade school I have had sinus issues. It has become a way of life for me. I started on antihistimines in grade school and have pretty much taken them regularly.

I have had two different sets of allergy testing, one in 1990 and another in 2000. I am allergic to tons of environmental and food allergies. I know the last allergist I saw said on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst -- I was at least a 12. Grasses, trees, molds, cats, dogs, dust mites, aerosal sprays, most colognes and after shaves, and etc. Food allergies include legumes of all types including peanut butter, coconut, lemons, wheat, soy, beef, pork, chicken, potatoes, rice, milk protein, corn, and this is not an all inclusive list.

So I deal with chronic stuffiness, congestion, nasal drainage, etc. pretty much year round. I have difficulty at times telling when I truly have an infection due to chronic problems I have asthma as well. I take Zyrtec daily. I by pass the nasal sprays unless I am having an acute episode. When I use steriod nasal sprays I find that it changes my sense of smell and everything, and I do mean everything develops a very strong vinegar smell.

I have tried the Neil Med saline rinse and find that for unknown reasons I drain water with sudden gushes for a period of time afterwards, which is embarrassing and messy. I have tried the usual tricks to help unsuccessfully.

I know for myself I use my machine, even when sick.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on January 9, 2010 at 2:04pm

Fred Pratt inadvertently left me this message when it's clear it was meant for this thread:

Hi Folks,

I read with interest the discussion thread on CPAP use and Sinus Infections. I have been on CPAP therapy for 19 years and the combination of a bad cold and the need to use a CPAP is a downside of having to treat my obstructive sleep Apnea but not sufficient for me to stop using my CPAP.

At the end of some colds the inner and outter parts of my lower nose and upper lip get badly infected / irritated and I get sores with a typical cold sore redness and scabing. It looks horrible and feels worse.

This can be treated with Neosporin or if bad enough you can get a prescription for Bactrin which I think is the same active ingreadient but at a higher presecition only strength. Lip balm can also help.

I have come to accept this as something that is just a consequence of wearing a CPAP mask that concentrates the negative effects of the viral cold on that portion of my face.

Some years I dodge the bullet and some years it can happen more than once. My experience is that this usually goes away whether treated or not but can last a week or two after the cold as a secondary infection.

Not every cold I get results in this effect but when it happens it is a real pain. This never happened (that I can recall) before I went on CPAP therapy.

I am just getting over a bout of this CPAP / Cold effect on my nose from a cold that started on December 27 ,2009 but the lower nose irritation / infection did not start until just after the New Year. I believe that I could avoid some of these effects if I could go without a CPAP but in my case more than one day without a full night on my CPAP makes life miserable (even more miserable than having a sore nose).

This may not be the exact topic of this discission thread that I stumbled accross but I wanted to share my experience and to see if anyone had any additional useful information for me.

Thanks & Take Care,

Fred Pratt

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