Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 25, 2010 at 9:29pm

Hi Carol! I'd never heard about it either. I mean, that it had a name and could be related to apnea in some way. I read it on Dr. Park's website, the one that has a # of topics he addresses.'

The teeth idea is interesting. But it doesn't make sense to me 'cause my teeth and my tongue are right where they've always been!! It's probably been 15 years that I've noticed it. Was never like this all those years before.

Maybe Dr. Park will chime in on this at some point. It's an odd phenomenon.....

Susan :-)

Susan :-)

sleepycarol said:

I have never heard of this. I wonder if it is indicative of a tongue being crowded in the mouth cavity and the teeth leaving the impressions. I know if given enough time your skin will contour to certain shapes if held in that position long enough. My mother was a chain smoker and I swear she had permanent indentations from holding the cigarette a certain way.

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 25, 2010 at 9:33pm

Mike, do you know whose tongue is in that picture??

Mike said:

I grabbed the picture, but have no idea when in the day it was taken.

Dan Lyons said:

The 'scalloping" appears to be the impressions of the upper teeth, possibly the result of the tongue's position during the course of the night.

When was this picture obtained? Early AM upon waking up possibly?

Does it disappear after a short duration?

Could be possibly be same as if you fell asleep on a textured blanket and wake with the material pattern embossed on the skin?

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Permalink Reply by birdshell on January 26, 2010 at 12:54pm

This scalloping does appear to be tooth impressions on the tongue and may be from the pressure put on the tongue by the teeth over time. I don't really know, this is just my guess.

Here comes some more guessing:

I tend to have a receding chin. My lower jaw is definitely smaller and the top jaw is larger (aka, overbite). My first sleep doctor said that my anatomy (from exterior observation) was indicating that any kind of surgery would not work for me. As a child, I had teeth that were crowded and angled back; the dentist said that pressure from my tongue would push them right into place. While the teeth are still crowded, they are definitely pushed outward and angled properly.

I also tend to have a small mouth (in a big head!?!) and I'm thinking that many of us with apnea tend to have small mouths. Depending on tongue size, the pressure against the teeth over time could relate to the scalloping.

So, all of this is just a guess on my part. Susan, if you are going to stick your tongue out to get a fabric impression on it whilst sleeping, will you not be mouth breathing by default and lose therapy? :p

I personally suggest keeping the tongue INSIDE the mouth and living with the tooth impressions, and allowing those blanket and sheet thread patterns to remain external. My lips are sealed. :)

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 26, 2010 at 1:29pm

birdshell said:

This scalloping does appear to be tooth impressions on the tongue and may be from the pressure put on the tongue by the teeth over time. I don't really know, this is just my guess.

Here comes some more guessing:

I tend to have a receding chin. My lower jaw is definitely smaller and the top jaw is larger (aka, overbite). My first sleep doctor said that my anatomy (from exterior observation) was indicating that any kind of surgery would not work for me. As a child, I had teeth that were crowded and angled back; the dentist said that pressure from my tongue would push them right into place. While the teeth are still crowded, they are definitely pushed outward and angled properly.

I also tend to have a small mouth (in a big head!?!) and I'm thinking that many of us with apnea tend to have small mouths. Depending on tongue size, the pressure against the teeth over time could relate to the scalloping.

So, all of this is just a guess on my part. Susan, if you are going to stick your tongue out to get a fabric impression on it whilst sleeping, will you not be mouth breathing by default and lose therapy? :p

I personally suggest keeping the tongue INSIDE the mouth and living with the tooth impressions, and allowing those blanket and sheet thread patterns to remain external. My lips are sealed. :)

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on January 26, 2010 at 1:44pm

LMAO!! Hi, Birdshell!! I think it was Dan who was wondering about the tongue on fabric deal! He always has interesting thoughts about all this stuff. It cracked me up 'cause I can't imagine what a sight that would be. If I AM doing that, I don't want anyone to ever see it!!!!

I'm not worried or upset about the tongue business. I've had it so long, and always wondered about it, that it's just what it is. What I DIDN'T have was a clue that it may be related to OSA--I found that poking around on Dr. Park's website. For those of you who haven't accessed it, I'd encourage you to check it out. There's a TON of info on there.

I have very few of the typical risk factors associated with apnea. Weight's within normal limits, facial structure unremarkable, teeth in place as they should be, normal-sized mouth (people who know me, including on here, might dispute that !!!). All of which is to say in my case, I think it's probably genetic. My father, who died more than 25 years ago, had it. I'm certain of that. He met the risks of long-term HEAVY snoring and overweight. His facial structure was also unremarkable. My older son also has it--but walked out of the lab when they came in to place his mask. He pretty much panicked and ran. All three of us had, and have heart disease.

Soooo, I guess I was doomed in a way. But I'm alive, working on thriving (still in process with that one!).

Great to hear from you!!

Susan McCord ;-)

birdshell said:

This scalloping does appear to be tooth impressions on the tongue and may be from the pressure put on the tongue by the teeth over time. I don't really know, this is just my guess.

Here comes some more guessing:

I tend to have a receding chin. My lower jaw is definitely smaller and the top jaw is larger (aka, overbite). My first sleep doctor said that my anatomy (from exterior observation) was indicating that any kind of surgery would not work for me. As a child, I had teeth that were crowded and angled back; the dentist said that pressure from my tongue would push them right into place. While the teeth are still crowded, they are definitely pushed outward and angled properly.

I also tend to have a small mouth (in a big head!?!) and I'm thinking that many of us with apnea tend to have small mouths. Depending on tongue size, the pressure against the teeth over time could relate to the scalloping.

So, all of this is just a guess on my part. Susan, if you are going to stick your tongue out to get a fabric impression on it whilst sleeping, will you not be mouth breathing by default and lose therapy? :p

I personally suggest keeping the tongue INSIDE the mouth and living with the tooth impressions, and allowing those blanket and sheet thread patterns to remain external. My lips are sealed. :)

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Permalink Reply by sherry on January 31, 2010 at 3:50pm

Susan, I'm interested to know if you also have creases in your earlobes? I have seen where those are present in @ 75% of people with heart disease, or at risk..possibly due to loss of elasticity in skin (and blood vessels)..deciding if apnea, or creases, or other things are causative or the result of heart disease, is confusing! I have noticed the beginnings of creases on my lobes, and I have been much more compliant about taking my statin and my cpap!

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Permalink Reply by Jan on January 31, 2010 at 4:32pm

I have the scallops on my tongue. I have had both doctors and dentists look at my tongue and no one mentioned anything about it to me.

sigh...

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on February 1, 2010 at 11:03pm

Me too, Jan. Go figure.....

Jan said:

I have the scallops on my tongue. I have had both doctors and dentists look at my tongue and no one mentioned anything about it to me.

sigh...

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on February 1, 2010 at 11:04pm

I don't know, Sherry. If I do, I haven't noticed but the only time I look at my ears closely is after I've put in earrings! I'll check and get back to this. Thanks....

Susan :-)

sherry said:

Susan, I'm interested to know if you also have creases in your earlobes? I have seen where those are present in @ 75% of people with heart disease, or at risk..possibly due to loss of elasticity in skin (and blood vessels)..deciding if apnea, or creases, or other things are causative or the result of heart disease, is confusing! I have noticed the beginnings of creases on my lobes, and I have been much more compliant about taking my statin and my cpap!

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Karl Zacher on February 2, 2010 at 11:08am

This is due to bruxism (grinding the teeth). This generally occurs at night and the characteristic scalloping is where the tongue has been bitten!

It IS a possible marker for OSA in as much that there is a tenuous link between OSA and nocturnal bruxism at the end of the apnoeaic episode.

Hope this helps

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on February 2, 2010 at 12:29pm

Sherry, I have one crease in my right earlobe--none in the left. Interestingly enough, my blockages are on the other side from the crease, in the LAD artery. Have no idea what, if any, significance that has, but that's what I have. Keep me posted if you find out anything interesting!

Susan McCord :-)

susan mccord said:

I don't know, Sherry. If I do, I haven't noticed but the only time I look at my ears closely is after I've put in earrings! I'll check and get back to this. Thanks....

Susan :-)

sherry said:

Susan, I'm interested to know if you also have creases in your earlobes? I have seen where those are present in @ 75% of people with heart disease, or at risk..possibly due to loss of elasticity in skin (and blood vessels)..deciding if apnea, or creases, or other things are causative or the result of heart disease, is confusing! I have noticed the beginnings of creases on my lobes, and I have been much more compliant about taking my statin and my cpap!

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on February 2, 2010 at 12:33pm

Not disputing your post whatsoever, Adrian. I asked my dentist if my teeth show any signs of grinding--she said no. She's been taking care of my teeth for many years and would notice any changes of that sort, at least I would think so. (I'm no expert in this regard). I've had this scalloping for many years.

What else do you think it might be?.....

Susan McCord :-)

Adrian Karl Zacher said:

This is due to bruxism (grinding the teeth). This generally occurs at night and the characteristic scalloping is where the tongue has been bitten!

It IS a possible marker for OSA in as much that there is a tenuous link between OSA and nocturnal bruxism at the end of the apnoeaic episode.

Hope this helps

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