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Permalink Reply by Mark Douglas on February 1, 2011 at 10:02pm

Re Bob's comment about scientific method "not working".

 

Defoe said "all men would be tyrants - if they could".    A collarary could be "all facts will be distorted - if its possible".

 

In the medical arena,  the doctors doing the research may be exceedingly bright, and motivated.  But they are still human.  They still see things as they want to see.  Humans have nearly unlimited capacity for delusion, especially if professing this delusion has some gain socially.  In other words, if it gives us  more status in a certain group, we tend to do virtually anything to get it.  Put a bone through our nose? No problem.  Enslave others, torture, sell children?  Piece of cake! 

 

Their is only one field I  know of which weeds out this natural tendency -- to some extent. Bridge engineers.  If your bridge falls down,  you don't have a place to hide.  It fell down.  In those fields with great possibility of delusional self full filling thinking -- such as education and social sciences -- there is a never ending supply of new ideas.   See the great  "hyper active debate" which seems to have morphed into a mind set where half the children are in special ed and suffer from dyslexia and "oppositional disorder" or some flavor of the week.

 

It just comes with humanity.  I've reached the point Im just thrilled when medicines work at all. God bless everyone who is out there trying to help.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on March 1, 2012 at 10:43pm

i am going to keep reviving this thread from time to time until someone at the American Heart Association gives me a reason not to.  BUMP!

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Permalink Reply by 99 on March 2, 2012 at 8:29am

they are like drug pushers

give first sample free to get you hooked

statins deplete the heart of cq10

prone to diabeties

and probably a host more problems

and say here we are coming to the rescue after they have shoved you down a hole

also i am on clopidogrol and aspirin and the two should not be given together and my heart doctor should have known better as you can bleed to death 

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Permalink Reply by 99 on March 2, 2012 at 8:59am

It is a well-established fact that statin drugs have a number of severe side-effects and once you've been hoarded onto the statin bandwagon you can brace yourself for at least one or more of the following: liver problems, acute kidney failure, muscle weakness and cataracts... to mention but a few of statins' ever-expanding list of side effects.

The latest addition to that disturbing list is DIABETES!

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Permalink Reply by Janna on March 2, 2012 at 7:50pm

I'm glad you did, Mike. The connection between heart issues and OSA is clearly supported. Reading this thread raised my blood pressure a little bit.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on March 2, 2012 at 8:46pm

Mike C - I am honored to have played some small role in this decision to shift funds away from The American Heart Association and to kids with cancer. God bless.

Mike C (at the Beach!) said:

Oh & PS.... I give the American Heart Association MY finger! And beyond that? I changed my will to give their 50% share of my estate to now go 100% to St. Jude's Research Hospital. My children are deceased and my wife has struggled with cancer for years. Out home is nearly paid for (4 more years!) so what little we do have, we will give to those we believe in. And 50% was to the AHA...My "estate" may be trivial to the big buck folks. But it beats giving it to the State of California! 

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Permalink Reply by Mike on March 2, 2012 at 9:16pm

I feel the same way, Janna.  It makes me so angry that The American Heart Association would be so self-centered looking out for their own petty interests instead of the interests of the public.

Janna Mantua said:

I'm glad you did, Mike. The connection between heart issues and OSA is clearly supported. Reading this thread raised my blood pressure a little bit.

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Permalink Reply by 99 on March 19, 2012 at 5:01pm

 study published in Circulation: Heart Failure, a journal of the American Heart
Association, researchers discovered that moderate to severe OSA can cause changes in the heart's shape and function, similar to the effects of hypertension. These  changes include increased mass, thickening of the heart wall and reduced pumping ability.
But after six months after continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) treatment 
the abnormalities returned to near-normal measurements in sleep apnea patients.

Facts about OSA and Heart Failure:


* 50% of heart failure patients have OSA (Javaheri 1999).


* Heart failure is the most expensive disorder to treat (Medicare: $20.4 billion
 per annum) and over 75% of heart failure patients have sleep apnea (Oldenburg 2007).

* The American College of Cardiology and American Heart Association have recommended
that all patients with newly diagnosed or refractory heart failure patients be evaluated
for sleep apnea.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on March 20, 2012 at 12:29pm

Thanks for keeping this thread active and at the top of the queue.

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Permalink Reply by 99 on March 26, 2012 at 12:35pm

evidence

1 Shahar  E, Whitney  CW, Redline  S, Lee  ET, Newman  AB, Javier Nieto  F, et al.  Sleep-disordered breathing and cardiovascular disease: cross-sectional results of the Sleep Heart Health Study.  Am J Respir Crit Care Med.  2001;163:19–25.

2 Hung  J, Whitford  EG, Parsons  RW, Hillman  DR.  Association of sleep apnoea with myocardial infarction in men.  Lancet.  1990;336:261–4.

3 Dyken  ME, Somers  VK, Yamada  T, Ren  ZY, Zimmerman  MB.  Investigating the relationship between stroke and obstructive sleep apnea.  Stroke.  1996;27:401–7.

4 Chan  J, Sanderson  J, Chan  W, Lai  C, Choy  D, Ho  A, Keung  R.  Prevalence of sleep-disordered breathing in diastolic heart failure.  Chest.  1997;111:1488–93.

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