Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mary Z on October 20, 2010 at 9:29am

Your symptoms may not be entirely of typical OSA symptoms as you may have another Sleep Disordered Breathing problem. You may want to keep in touch with the sleep lab to see if they have any cancellations and can get you in sooner they might not keep a list and you'll have to call every couple of days, but it's worth a try. Especially helpful if you're having symptoms when they bring you in. Hopefully you'll get more feedback. Good Luck, sherri, and keep us posted.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on October 20, 2010 at 8:50pm

It sounds like you are having breathing events as you fall asleep. These could be transitional centrals. More than likely with your body's reactions they are obstructive. I agree with MAry.You should keep in contact with the lab and try to get in early due to cancellation.

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Permalink Reply by Judy on October 21, 2010 at 5:39am

Have you ever noticed these type of heart palpitations during the day? I was just recently Dx'd w/Atrial Fibrillation so, of course, the thought crosses my mind that maybe a 24 hour Holter monitor might be in order.

In my case, I doubted a 24 hour Holter would have caught the problem as my frequency of NOTICEABLE palpations was very low. It took a 30 day event monitor to capture the episodes. And the "events" were more frequent than I was aware of. What is more, ALL of the events occurred when I was "at rest", i.e. just sitting at the 'puter or watching TV, etc.

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Permalink Reply by sherri on October 21, 2010 at 9:06am

Mary Z said:

Your symptoms may not be entirely of typical OSA symptoms as you may have another Sleep Disordered Breathing problem. You may want to keep in touch with the sleep lab to see if they have any cancellations and can get you in sooner they might not keep a list and you'll have to call every couple of days, but it's worth a try. Especially helpful if you're having symptoms when they bring you in. Hopefully you'll get more feedback. Good Luck, sherri, and keep us posted.

Thanks Mary for the input. I'm pretty sure I'm not presenting with the typical symptoms. I've not really seen anyone with mine really. I will try and get in earlier.

Rock, Yes they do seem to be transitional centrals. And I can't seem to get past them for hours sometimes when it's hitting me bad. But why do you say they may be obstructive? Wouldn't my body react the same way if my CNS wasn't sending a signal to inhale? It's sending me the adrenalin rushes to wake me up, and the heart palpitations /pounding would be a result of lack of oxygen from not inhaling too I would think. The body movements can happen without the breathing issue for me I think. One odd type I get that I forgot to mention , is a feeling of all of the sudden my stomach is sucked in as far as it will go, and then I wake with a sudden strong jerk in my stomach.

Judy, Yes I'm actually prone to palpitations. I've had every test imaginable in the last few years to check my heart as they were driving me crazy. All tests came back fine. I had holter monitor testing, ekg's , echo cardiogram, stress test with echo. I've read the reports myself and all is well with my heart. I had PVC's only and not Atrial Fibrillation.
In the last 3 years I've eliminated those with diet change and magnesium supplementation .
I now RARELY have palpitations. I have a few strictly during that time of the month only now.

Again my top question remains, why do I have these events every single night for a few weeks and then have the events disappear for 10-14 days straight ? The days aren't always exact, it may be 7 days with and 15 without or whatever.
But should true central apnea just go away and come back? Due to the nature of my episodes, happening while at sleep onset only, I can't be just not aware that they're still happening . The days that I don't have them I feel great , on top of the world the next day. Refreshed. The days that I have them I'm dragged down.
They are definitely 100% leaving and then coming back.

I keep very good track of the events in a daily journal. I have multiple food/chemical intolerance's and keep a daily food journal, and have done so also with these events to see if I could correlate it to anything. I'm still trying to do that.

Thank you all for any suggestions you might have , have any of you seen any of your patients with anything similar?
Or have you just seen a testing that showed someone only have central at the sleep onset and nothing after this stage?
Thanks so much...

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Permalink Reply by sherri on January 11, 2011 at 1:54pm

Just thought I'd put in an update on my findings, just in case it should help someone else out.  I had my sleep study.

It shows the following:

TST- 228.5

Sleep latency- 13 mins

REM latency- 301.5

WASO 181 Min  SPT 42.3%

Stage N1- 50 min   SPT 12.5%

Stage N2- 162.5 min SPT 41.3%

Stage N3- 0 min SPT 0%

Rem- 15.5     SPT 3.9%

# of awakenings 37

Awakenings index 5.6

Sleep efficiency 55.8%

# of obstructive apnea/hypopnea events 8

Index 2.1

Total respiratory disturbance index 2.1

 

Mean Sleep SAO2- 93%

# of desaturations 3 total

Minimum 02 value 89%

 

Total arousals 87          INDEX 22.8

with apnea/hypopnea 5  INDEX 1.3

With desaturation 0       INDEX 0

Spontaneous 11            INDEX 2.9

with limb movements 55 INDEX 14.4

 

Number of obstructive apnea events 4

Number of apnea events 4

Total resp events 8

 

 Report says REM latency markedly prolonged, No significant n3 sleep ever achieved, Limb-movement arousal index significantly elevated at 14.4. Snoring is moderate thought the entire study as well with the snoring related arousal index borderline at 4.2.

Diagnosis, Periodic limb movement disorder.

 

Weird huh, after looking at my above symtoms I was very surprised to see the results. 

Weirder still, is what causes this crazy sleeping.  I said in the above post that I've had numerous food/chemical intolerance's.  Turns out this is also related to a food/chemical intolerance.  It is due to salicylate intolerance. Salicylate's are in aspirin, and many many plants (fruits and vegetables, and spices)   I've tested it thouroughly and when I don't eat anything that contains them, I don't have any issues with my sleep.  When I do get them into me somehow, I sleep just like the test indicates.  As a matter of fact I had the sleep issue pretty much under control with my diet, and for the test, made sure to eat a tiny amount of food that I knew would make me have a horrible night. 

Turns out I used a few drops of ketchup on my burger, and ate 1 cashew.  I knew that it would bring on the first issue of not being able to cross that threshold into sleep , and also make me have the limb movements .  It definitely brought on the night of horrible sleeping that I thought it would.

 

My only concern is that I don't think they caught the breathing issue I have very well.  As I said I have the most problems at the sleep -wake transition.  My symptoms when I do have these bad nights are worse now, In my opinion.  I will still wake with the feeling of extreme sleepiness, but with adrenalin feeling.  I wake myself up as much as I can during these episodes, and while awake feel really disoriented ..sometimes the room seems like it melts together, and my right eye has a black spot towards the bottom of my eye that stays while I re-orient myself, or as I perceive it, as I get my oxygen/co2 back to the way it should be. Then the black spot slowly subsides and goes away and I can see clearly again, as does the adrenalin and disorientation. Then I go back to sleep and do it all again, for maybe 10-15 times or more or hours more.  Then I finally cross over into sleep and I don't experience any of it again that night.

I believe the night of the test fairly represented how I normally sleep except for 2 things.  The breathing issue at the beginning was milder than usual...and  I never breath thru my mouth.  The night I was tested I had the tube thing in my nose.  I believe thats why I snored, as I don't think I've had a snoring issue before.

 

I'm very glad that I know what causes this, but very concerned that I have the symptoms I have.  It is hard to control as salicylates are in practically everything.  I've eliminated them 99% but every so often that 1% creeps in and I have to deal with this kind of night of sleeping. 

What do you all think of my results?

Thanks in advance for any insight

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on January 11, 2011 at 4:19pm

Are they going to put you on CPAP?  At least all your AIs were obstructive, no central apneas.  There is a medicine for restless leg syndrome, I don't know if that's similar to PLMD,  That's good you know about your food intolerance.  I had no idea salicylates were is so many things that they're hard to avoid.  It's a shame you didn't get into deep sleep.  Was this a fairly typical night for you?  Hopefully one of our professionsls, or someone with more knowledge than me will weigh in on your results.  If they're going to put you on CPAP will you be doing a titrations study?

Good Luck.

Mary Z.

sherri said:

Just thought I'd put in an update on my findings, just in case it should help someone else out.  I had my sleep study.

It shows the following:

TST- 228.5

Sleep latency- 13 mins

REM latency- 301.5

WASO 181 Min  SPT 42.3%

Stage N1- 50 min   SPT 12.5%

Stage N2- 162.5 min SPT 41.3%

Stage N3- 0 min SPT 0%

Rem- 15.5     SPT 3.9%

# of awakenings 37

Awakenings index 5.6

Sleep efficiency 55.8%

# of obstructive apnea/hypopnea events 8

Index 2.1

Total respiratory disturbance index 2.1

 

Mean Sleep SAO2- 93%

# of desaturations 3 total

Minimum 02 value 89%

 

Total arousals 87          INDEX 22.8

with apnea/hypopnea 5  INDEX 1.3

With desaturation 0       INDEX 0

Spontaneous 11            INDEX 2.9

with limb movements 55 INDEX 14.4

 

Number of obstructive apnea events 4

Number of apnea events 4

Total resp events 8

 

 Report says REM latency markedly prolonged, No significant n3 sleep ever achieved, Limb-movement arousal index significantly elevated at 14.4. Snoring is moderate thought the entire study as well with the snoring related arousal index borderline at 4.2.

Diagnosis, Periodic limb movement disorder.

 

Weird huh, after looking at my above symtoms I was very surprised to see the results. 

Weirder still, is what causes this crazy sleeping.  I said in the above post that I've had numerous food/chemical intolerance's.  Turns out this is also related to a food/chemical intolerance.  It is due to salicylate intolerance. Salicylate's are in aspirin, and many many plants (fruits and vegetables, and spices)   I've tested it thouroughly and when I don't eat anything that contains them, I don't have any issues with my sleep.  When I do get them into me somehow, I sleep just like the test indicates.  As a matter of fact I had the sleep issue pretty much under control with my diet, and for the test, made sure to eat a tiny amount of food that I knew would make me have a horrible night. 

Turns out I used a few drops of ketchup on my burger, and ate 1 cashew.  I knew that it would bring on the first issue of not being able to cross that threshold into sleep , and also make me have the limb movements .  It definitely brought on the night of horrible sleeping that I thought it would.

 

My only concern is that I don't think they caught the breathing issue I have very well.  As I said I have the most problems at the sleep -wake transition.  My symptoms when I do have these bad nights are worse now, In my opinion.  I will still wake with the feeling of extreme sleepiness, but with adrenalin feeling.  I wake myself up as much as I can during these episodes, and while awake feel really disoriented ..sometimes the room seems like it melts together, and my right eye has a black spot towards the bottom of my eye that stays while I re-orient myself, or as I perceive it, as I get my oxygen/co2 back to the way it should be. Then the black spot slowly subsides and goes away and I can see clearly again, as does the adrenalin and disorientation. Then I go back to sleep and do it all again, for maybe 10-15 times or more or hours more.  Then I finally cross over into sleep and I don't experience any of it again that night.

I believe the night of the test fairly represented how I normally sleep except for 2 things.  The breathing issue at the beginning was milder than usual...and  I never breath thru my mouth.  The night I was tested I had the tube thing in my nose.  I believe thats why I snored, as I don't think I've had a snoring issue before.

 

I'm very glad that I know what causes this, but very concerned that I have the symptoms I have.  It is hard to control as salicylates are in practically everything.  I've eliminated them 99% but every so often that 1% creeps in and I have to deal with this kind of night of sleeping. 

What do you all think of my results?

Thanks in advance for any insight

 

 

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Permalink Reply by sherri on January 11, 2011 at 7:11pm

Hi Mary,

No CPAP as they said I don't have apnea.  I believe there may have been an issue with central apneas being recorded, as they only count centrals that are not a part of transitional sleep-wake . My major issue with my episodes are only at the very beginning of the sleep cycle stage.

PLMD is a totally different thing that Restless Leg Syndrome.  PLMD is limb movements during sleep, and RLS is usually awake and before you go to sleep.  My movements are in my stomach, face, arms, fingers, and legs.  I've felt those at the beginning of going to sleep many times, but I didnt think they persisted after I got past that transition stage.

It was only a typical night after I've had something with salicylates in it.  Yes they're really in a lot of things. Just today I had to wash my hair with baking soda , as the shampoo I was trying out turned out to give me a few nights of bad sleep.

 

Mary Z said:

Are they going to put you on CPAP?  At least all your AIs were obstructive, no central apneas.  There is a medicine for restless leg syndrome, I don't know if that's similar to PLMD,  That's good you know about your food intolerance.  I had no idea salicylates were is so many things that they're hard to avoid.  It's a shame you didn't get into deep sleep.  Was this a fairly typical night for you?  Hopefully one of our professionsls, or someone with more knowledge than me will weigh in on your results.  If they're going to put you on CPAP will you be doing a titrations study?

Good Luck.

Mary Z.

sherri said:

Just thought I'd put in an update on my findings, just in case it should help someone else out.  I had my sleep study.

It shows the following:

TST- 228.5

Sleep latency- 13 mins

REM latency- 301.5

WASO 181 Min  SPT 42.3%

Stage N1- 50 min   SPT 12.5%

Stage N2- 162.5 min SPT 41.3%

Stage N3- 0 min SPT 0%

Rem- 15.5     SPT 3.9%

# of awakenings 37

Awakenings index 5.6

Sleep efficiency 55.8%

# of obstructive apnea/hypopnea events 8

Index 2.1

Total respiratory disturbance index 2.1

 

Mean Sleep SAO2- 93%

# of desaturations 3 total

Minimum 02 value 89%

 

Total arousals 87          INDEX 22.8

with apnea/hypopnea 5  INDEX 1.3

With desaturation 0       INDEX 0

Spontaneous 11            INDEX 2.9

with limb movements 55 INDEX 14.4

 

Number of obstructive apnea events 4

Number of apnea events 4

Total resp events 8

 

 Report says REM latency markedly prolonged, No significant n3 sleep ever achieved, Limb-movement arousal index significantly elevated at 14.4. Snoring is moderate thought the entire study as well with the snoring related arousal index borderline at 4.2.

Diagnosis, Periodic limb movement disorder.

 

Weird huh, after looking at my above symtoms I was very surprised to see the results. 

Weirder still, is what causes this crazy sleeping.  I said in the above post that I've had numerous food/chemical intolerance's.  Turns out this is also related to a food/chemical intolerance.  It is due to salicylate intolerance. Salicylate's are in aspirin, and many many plants (fruits and vegetables, and spices)   I've tested it thouroughly and when I don't eat anything that contains them, I don't have any issues with my sleep.  When I do get them into me somehow, I sleep just like the test indicates.  As a matter of fact I had the sleep issue pretty much under control with my diet, and for the test, made sure to eat a tiny amount of food that I knew would make me have a horrible night. 

Turns out I used a few drops of ketchup on my burger, and ate 1 cashew.  I knew that it would bring on the first issue of not being able to cross that threshold into sleep , and also make me have the limb movements .  It definitely brought on the night of horrible sleeping that I thought it would.

 

My only concern is that I don't think they caught the breathing issue I have very well.  As I said I have the most problems at the sleep -wake transition.  My symptoms when I do have these bad nights are worse now, In my opinion.  I will still wake with the feeling of extreme sleepiness, but with adrenalin feeling.  I wake myself up as much as I can during these episodes, and while awake feel really disoriented ..sometimes the room seems like it melts together, and my right eye has a black spot towards the bottom of my eye that stays while I re-orient myself, or as I perceive it, as I get my oxygen/co2 back to the way it should be. Then the black spot slowly subsides and goes away and I can see clearly again, as does the adrenalin and disorientation. Then I go back to sleep and do it all again, for maybe 10-15 times or more or hours more.  Then I finally cross over into sleep and I don't experience any of it again that night.

I believe the night of the test fairly represented how I normally sleep except for 2 things.  The breathing issue at the beginning was milder than usual...and  I never breath thru my mouth.  The night I was tested I had the tube thing in my nose.  I believe thats why I snored, as I don't think I've had a snoring issue before.

 

I'm very glad that I know what causes this, but very concerned that I have the symptoms I have.  It is hard to control as salicylates are in practically everything.  I've eliminated them 99% but every so often that 1% creeps in and I have to deal with this kind of night of sleeping. 

What do you all think of my results?

Thanks in advance for any insight

 

 

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Permalink Reply by gordon on January 11, 2011 at 8:58pm

so you don't have sleep apnea, yet you are not sleeping well to the point of fatigue?, I don't trust doctors in the least, I would try a test with CPAP. Many doctors are flat-out wrong, maybe 50% of the time.)

sherri said:

Hi Mary,

No CPAP as they said I don't have apnea.  I believe there may have been an issue with central apneas being recorded, as they only count centrals that are not a part of transitional sleep-wake . My major issue with my episodes are only at the very beginning of the sleep cycle stage.

PLMD is a totally different thing that Restless Leg Syndrome.  PLMD is limb movements during sleep, and RLS is usually awake and before you go to sleep.  My movements are in my stomach, face, arms, fingers, and legs.  I've felt those at the beginning of going to sleep many times, but I didnt think they persisted after I got past that transition stage.

It was only a typical night after I've had something with salicylates in it.  Yes they're really in a lot of things. Just today I had to wash my hair with baking soda , as the shampoo I was trying out turned out to give me a few nights of bad sleep.

 

Mary Z said:

Are they going to put you on CPAP?  At least all your AIs were obstructive, no central apneas.  There is a medicine for restless leg syndrome, I don't know if that's similar to PLMD,  That's good you know about your food intolerance.  I had no idea salicylates were is so many things that they're hard to avoid.  It's a shame you didn't get into deep sleep.  Was this a fairly typical night for you?  Hopefully one of our professionsls, or someone with more knowledge than me will weigh in on your results.  If they're going to put you on CPAP will you be doing a titrations study?

Good Luck.

Mary Z.

sherri said:

Just thought I'd put in an update on my findings, just in case it should help someone else out.  I had my sleep study.

It shows the following:

TST- 228.5

Sleep latency- 13 mins

REM latency- 301.5

WASO 181 Min  SPT 42.3%

Stage N1- 50 min   SPT 12.5%

Stage N2- 162.5 min SPT 41.3%

Stage N3- 0 min SPT 0%

Rem- 15.5     SPT 3.9%

# of awakenings 37

Awakenings index 5.6

Sleep efficiency 55.8%

# of obstructive apnea/hypopnea events 8

Index 2.1

Total respiratory disturbance index 2.1

 

Mean Sleep SAO2- 93%

# of desaturations 3 total

Minimum 02 value 89%

 

Total arousals 87          INDEX 22.8

with apnea/hypopnea 5  INDEX 1.3

With desaturation 0       INDEX 0

Spontaneous 11            INDEX 2.9

with limb movements 55 INDEX 14.4

 

Number of obstructive apnea events 4

Number of apnea events 4

Total resp events 8

 

 Report says REM latency markedly prolonged, No significant n3 sleep ever achieved, Limb-movement arousal index significantly elevated at 14.4. Snoring is moderate thought the entire study as well with the snoring related arousal index borderline at 4.2.

Diagnosis, Periodic limb movement disorder.

 

Weird huh, after looking at my above symtoms I was very surprised to see the results. 

Weirder still, is what causes this crazy sleeping.  I said in the above post that I've had numerous food/chemical intolerance's.  Turns out this is also related to a food/chemical intolerance.  It is due to salicylate intolerance. Salicylate's are in aspirin, and many many plants (fruits and vegetables, and spices)   I've tested it thouroughly and when I don't eat anything that contains them, I don't have any issues with my sleep.  When I do get them into me somehow, I sleep just like the test indicates.  As a matter of fact I had the sleep issue pretty much under control with my diet, and for the test, made sure to eat a tiny amount of food that I knew would make me have a horrible night. 

Turns out I used a few drops of ketchup on my burger, and ate 1 cashew.  I knew that it would bring on the first issue of not being able to cross that threshold into sleep , and also make me have the limb movements .  It definitely brought on the night of horrible sleeping that I thought it would.

 

My only concern is that I don't think they caught the breathing issue I have very well.  As I said I have the most problems at the sleep -wake transition.  My symptoms when I do have these bad nights are worse now, In my opinion.  I will still wake with the feeling of extreme sleepiness, but with adrenalin feeling.  I wake myself up as much as I can during these episodes, and while awake feel really disoriented ..sometimes the room seems like it melts together, and my right eye has a black spot towards the bottom of my eye that stays while I re-orient myself, or as I perceive it, as I get my oxygen/co2 back to the way it should be. Then the black spot slowly subsides and goes away and I can see clearly again, as does the adrenalin and disorientation. Then I go back to sleep and do it all again, for maybe 10-15 times or more or hours more.  Then I finally cross over into sleep and I don't experience any of it again that night.

I believe the night of the test fairly represented how I normally sleep except for 2 things.  The breathing issue at the beginning was milder than usual...and  I never breath thru my mouth.  The night I was tested I had the tube thing in my nose.  I believe thats why I snored, as I don't think I've had a snoring issue before.

 

I'm very glad that I know what causes this, but very concerned that I have the symptoms I have.  It is hard to control as salicylates are in practically everything.  I've eliminated them 99% but every so often that 1% creeps in and I have to deal with this kind of night of sleeping. 

What do you all think of my results?

Thanks in advance for any insight

 

 

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on January 12, 2011 at 11:53pm

Wow Gordon wrong 50% of the time! How do they stay in buisiness? I know if my studies were wrong that often I would be jobless.

 

Sherri have your sleep docs considered UARS?

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Permalink Reply by sherri on January 13, 2011 at 8:51am

Not yet, I am being referred to a ENT for now. Maybe they will suggest UARS?  Not sure.   My doctor also referred me to an eye doctor, for the vision issues that are happening at the same time as the breathing issues.

Rock Hinkle said:

Wow Gordon wrong 50% of the time! How do they stay in buisiness? I know if my studies were wrong that often I would be jobless.

 

Sherri have your sleep docs considered UARS?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by sherri on January 13, 2011 at 9:41am

Also, reading about UARS, I don't seem to fit that.    My results say that I had 4 hypopneas during NREM, 2 Apneas during NREM, 1 apnea event during REM, and 1 apnea event during WAKE.

It shows arousal's from limb movements 55 , arousal's from  snoring 16, spontaneous 11 , and 5 from apneas/hypopneas.

5 of the respiratory events were right at sleep onset.

 

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