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Zeo Sleep Monitor, does it work? ( not a pitch)
I keep seeing this on TV, now on the sidebar of this site. So I took a look at it and am wondering what the thoughts of forum members are about it. Obviously, the sensor that goes on the forehead will be an issue for masks with the part that rests there
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jon on
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Just a intro:
I received the product very quickly - no more than 2 days from time of order. I plan to start testing it Sat. night.
Background - I do not have a sleep disorder, just little time available to sleep though I try to average 6 hours, with what seems to be a regular 4 hour night, and 7 hour night per week.
My purpose for buying the product was for the alarm feature to maximize my sleep and wake me at the "best" point in my REM cycle (plus I love gadgets). So I hope to update my initial findings by Mon/Tues...
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Permalink Reply by Derek@Zeo on
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Thanks for the update, Jon. Two quick tips...
1. Make sure you plug Zeo in and charge the headband for ~2 hours before you take it for its first run on Saturday night.
2. You can adjust the brightness of the bedside display by using the up and down arrows on the top of the unit.
Look forward to seeing your thoughts/comments/feedback!
-Derek @ Zeo
[derek@myzeo.com]
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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REM sleep is called paradoxial sleep due to the brainwaves being similar to that of stage 1 or wake. For that reason it would be tough for any software to accurately determine sleep stages. Some people have very low amplitude brain waves that make it even harder to determine stages.
Derek does this problem go away as the Zeo learns a persons sleep habits? Is the Zeo a learning machine? I wonder if the watermark has the same problems.
Jon said:I am also interested in this, I took a look at the reviews on Amazon, and they seem to be split.
Most confusing (Derek - please respond) is that some report that the Zeo reports them to be in REM sleep even when worn while fully awake- any idea how that could be?
thx
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Sat: planned start date: caught a flu virus – vomitted10 times, not worth trying tonight.
(Day 1)Sunday – feeling mostly better, plan to start tonight. 11pm regular exercise hour. 12pm wife helping kids w/studying for final exam , meanwhile, I shower and then watchNBA Finals (DVR) (boy Kobe got no help) 1am – about to fall asleep. Bad timing – wife comes in ½ talk/read – she wants to go to sleep (1:30am) I put on my headband, I adjust the fit to make it as loose as possible – no issues – not uncomfortable). but now I got a 2nd wind and am too conscious to sleep. Also, my sinuses are hurting and I try to double over the pillow to sleep on an incline – not comfortable. I try to sleep but am way to aware to sleep. I keep track of my sleep to know what's happening so I can check it vs. the Zeo (not good for sleeping) Finally (after I think an hour – I check the clock 2am), I take off the headband, and surf for a while to fall asleep. ½ hour later (2:30) I put it back on to sleep. I know that I didn’t fall right asleep, and recall many dreams throughout the night (not usual for me), so I must of slept, though at 7am I wake up as if I never slept. Oh yeah forgot to mention sometime through the night my 2yr joined me in bed with his RFM (rapid foot movement – 1 good shot right to the groin area – and constant jittering, at some point I got up the energy (I’d guess about 6am – total guess) to put him back in his bed). Anyway, head still feels feverish. Take off headband, call in sick to work. Lie back down to get some sleep – no zeo. Log in- very easy a few minutes of questions, cool to see stats..
Score – 45 – screenshot attached- - seems accurate representation. Though I guess the 4 hours of sleep should fail me no matter what the quality was. Says I had 31% REM.
Bottom Line day 1 worked as expected, comfortable, seems accurate - though easy test, see what it does on a regular night's sleep. Hope to post tomorrow - Attachments:
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zeo-20100613.JPG, 96 KB
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Hi Rock -
The similarities between REM sleep and wake can make it difficult to accurately differentiate between the two 100% of the time - we actually spend a fair amount of time educating some of our customers about these similarities (we often reference Merica & Fortune, Sleep Med Rev, 2004), so it's refreshing to have you point that out.
Zeo does not use a learning algorithm, though (as I know we've discussed this in the past) our algorithm is scientifically validated for accuracy (http://www.myzeo.com/pages/52_for_health_professionals.cfm#Validations). A more direct response to your question - yes, it is possible that Zeo tells someone that they are awake when they are actually sleeping (or visa versa), but it's right the majority of the time...
We emphasize that having data which is precise on a minute-by-minute basis is not as essential for improving your sleep fitness as data that's accurate over the course of the entire night. The real breakthrough is that Zeo allows you to see this data every night you're interested in seeing it (instead of 1 night here, or another night there) - in this way, you can correlate which factors are affecting your sleep quality the most.
Hope this answers your questions, but I'm here to field any others :)
Best,
Derek @ Zeo
[derek@myzeo.com]
PS ~ Jon, sorry to hear about the rough start, but glad to see that you were able to get some data out of it.
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Permalink Reply by James Skinner on
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I bought a Zeo back in September of 2009. I have used it almost every night since I bought it. I find it very useful at tracking sleep stages. There is simply no other device currently avaliable in the consumer market that can do a similar job. If you have any question for me about it please just ask.
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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on
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James, would wearing it be compatible with a Total Face Mask?
James Skinner said:
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Permalink Reply by Renee on
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Hello James ~
Great news that you've had such success with the Zeo. What mask are you using?
In line with Mary's question . . . I'm wondering if I would be able to use the Zeo with a Quattro mask - and I also wear a soft micro fleece "blanket" cover from Pad-A-Cheek over the Quattro forehead support which provides comfort and prevents headaches. It seems that the Quattro forehead support lies on the forehead in, what seems to be, the same place that the Zeo would have to be placed.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Renee
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James Skinner said:I bought a Zeo back in September of 2009. I have used it almost every night since I bought it. I find it very useful at tracking sleep stages. There is simply no other device currently avaliable in the consumer market that can do a similar job. If you have any question for me about it please just ask.
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Update (Days 2-4) I've tried to take note of when my son hops in my bed to wake me, and each day's zeo report corresponds accordingly. Also the grades seem to be in line with my subjective assessment of how well I slept. Last 2 nights the band has slipped off of my head, though I have had it on very loose so I'll just tighten it and see if it recoccurs.
I am looking forward to looking at last night's graph - as I woke up by myself about 25 minutes before my alarm, and felt rested - so I'm guessing that I had just finished a REM cycle, so I noted the time, and I'll cross check it vs. the zero report.
Next step to try the alarm feature (wake me up at the optimal part of the cycle)...
Jon said:Sat: planned start date: caught a flu virus – vomitted10 times, not worth trying tonight.
(Day 1)Sunday – feeling mostly better, plan to start tonight. 11pm regular exercise hour. 12pm wife helping kids w/studying for final exam , meanwhile, I shower and then watchNBA Finals (DVR) (boy Kobe got no help) 1am – about to fall asleep. Bad timing – wife comes in ½ talk/read – she wants to go to sleep (1:30am) I put on my headband, I adjust the fit to make it as loose as possible – no issues – not uncomfortable). but now I got a 2nd wind and am too conscious to sleep. Also, my sinuses are hurting and I try to double over the pillow to sleep on an incline – not comfortable. I try to sleep but am way to aware to sleep. I keep track of my sleep to know what's happening so I can check it vs. the Zeo (not good for sleeping) Finally (after I think an hour – I check the clock 2am), I take off the headband, and surf for a while to fall asleep. ½ hour later (2:30) I put it back on to sleep. I know that I didn’t fall right asleep, and recall many dreams throughout the night (not usual for me), so I must of slept, though at 7am I wake up as if I never slept. Oh yeah forgot to mention sometime through the night my 2yr joined me in bed with his RFM (rapid foot movement – 1 good shot right to the groin area – and constant jittering, at some point I got up the energy (I’d guess about 6am – total guess) to put him back in his bed). Anyway, head still feels feverish. Take off headband, call in sick to work. Lie back down to get some sleep – no zeo. Log in- very easy a few minutes of questions, cool to see stats..
Score – 45 – screenshot attached- - seems accurate representation. Though I guess the 4 hours of sleep should fail me no matter what the quality was. Says I had 31% REM.
Bottom Line day 1 worked as expected, comfortable, seems accurate - though easy test, see what it does on a regular night's sleep. Hope to post tomorrow
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Update Week # 2 (Sat, Sun, Mon)
As mentioned this week I tested out the smart wake feature (which was my main reason for buying the Zeo).
Sat night I couldn't sleep (baby and just hyped up), and ended up getting about 4 hrs of terrible sleep. Score - 48
Sunday night - I went to sleep "early" to get about 7 hours - I ended up waking up myself about an 1-1.5 hrs early. I didn't get out of bed but I was conscious and basically in a haze. - score 86. Which would indicate a great night's sleep - what's up - I feel exhausted? To its credit it correctly identified the point at which I "woke up" - 6:25. However listed it as light sleep, instead of awake. I do recall being conscious (after all I checked the clock to note the time). So this I would state as a question of why? (as such the light sleep contributed to my Z score, had it noted that I was awake, my Z score would have been lower and in line with what I felt)
Regarding the smart alarm - it didn't wake me early (this makes sense as I way in light sleep mode the entire 45 minute period before the set alarm time)
Monday night Again, I went to sleep early 10:30pm (despite the 86 score of the prior night, I felt tired, and didn't catch up on the 4 hour Sat. night). I did not sleep well at all - RFM (rapid feet mvmt) boy again came in my bed and woke me. Also I woke up into a dazed state (staying in bed, with sensor on) again way before my alarm time. Zeo shows me getting 2.5 hours of REM sleep. To start the night, it took me about 45 minutes to fall asleep (my wife even started talking to me during some of that time). As known, wake appears the same as REM, and the zeo had me as in REM state during parts of that 45 minute period, and the rest of that 45 min period in a light sleep mode. It did correctly note the time that I dazed off fully (11:15) into deep sleep. It gave me a total score of 96 - which is way off. It seems to give you about 8+ points for every hour that you are wearing the sensor and it thinks your asleep - so taking a long time to fall asleep (it thinks you're in light sleep and/or REM sleep) and likewise waking up to a dazed state way before your alarm and keeping the sensor on - gets logged as sleep - thus the 2.25 hours I spent doing that = +17 points (so deducting for that my Zeo score would be about 79).
Also the awake time that it counts as REM sleep adds about 5 points/hour - thus it overstated my score by about 2.5 points - adjusting my score to about 76. That seems like a more reasonable assessment - as I got a decent sleep but ruined sleep due to interruptions.
In short, as soon as I reach a dazed morning wakenness - I'll take off my sensor, and hope that helps. Not sure what I can do about the inaccuracies due to taking a while to fall asleep.
It does seem to be accurate for the times between then, when I am asleep.
Lastly, regarding the smart alarm, still didn't get to see it in action, as I was awake way before the alarm time - so it was under the impression that I was still in REM sleep.
Next step I'll see how it helps when I take off the headband upon wakening to dazed wakenness, and also I'll let you know how the smart alarm works - if I can manage to sleep that long - (boy I only bought it as a fun gadget and for the smart alarm, but I think that I actually do have a sleep disorder)
Jon said:Update (Days 2-4) I've tried to take note of when my son hops in my bed to wake me, and each day's zeo report corresponds accordingly. Also the grades seem to be in line with my subjective assessment of how well I slept. Last 2 nights the band has slipped off of my head, though I have had it on very loose so I'll just tighten it and see if it recoccurs.
I am looking forward to looking at last night's graph - as I woke up by myself about 25 minutes before my alarm, and felt rested - so I'm guessing that I had just finished a REM cycle, so I noted the time, and I'll cross check it vs. the zero report.
Next step to try the alarm feature (wake me up at the optimal part of the cycle)...
Jon said:Sat: planned start date: caught a flu virus – vomitted10 times, not worth trying tonight.
(Day 1)Sunday – feeling mostly better, plan to start tonight. 11pm regular exercise hour. 12pm wife helping kids w/studying for final exam , meanwhile, I shower and then watchNBA Finals (DVR) (boy Kobe got no help) 1am – about to fall asleep. Bad timing – wife comes in ½ talk/read – she wants to go to sleep (1:30am) I put on my headband, I adjust the fit to make it as loose as possible – no issues – not uncomfortable). but now I got a 2nd wind and am too conscious to sleep. Also, my sinuses are hurting and I try to double over the pillow to sleep on an incline – not comfortable. I try to sleep but am way to aware to sleep. I keep track of my sleep to know what's happening so I can check it vs. the Zeo (not good for sleeping) Finally (after I think an hour – I check the clock 2am), I take off the headband, and surf for a while to fall asleep. ½ hour later (2:30) I put it back on to sleep. I know that I didn’t fall right asleep, and recall many dreams throughout the night (not usual for me), so I must of slept, though at 7am I wake up as if I never slept. Oh yeah forgot to mention sometime through the night my 2yr joined me in bed with his RFM (rapid foot movement – 1 good shot right to the groin area – and constant jittering, at some point I got up the energy (I’d guess about 6am – total guess) to put him back in his bed). Anyway, head still feels feverish. Take off headband, call in sick to work. Lie back down to get some sleep – no zeo. Log in- very easy a few minutes of questions, cool to see stats..
Score – 45 – screenshot attached- - seems accurate representation. Though I guess the 4 hours of sleep should fail me no matter what the quality was. Says I had 31% REM.
Bottom Line day 1 worked as expected, comfortable, seems accurate - though easy test, see what it does on a regular night's sleep. Hope to post tomorrow
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Intriguing. I have seen lamps advertised that gradually increase in brightness until it's time for you to wake up. Wonder how Zeo stacks up against the Sleep Tracker Pro Monitoring Device?
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