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Permalink Reply by RD on September 8, 2009 at 6:36pm

Why? Did you drive, work, play, live in a non-compliant CPAP world? If so, what should "they" take away from you? Your education? Your family? Your home? How far should it go? The adage: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone applies here Tim.

Tim said:

I hope that they take his license away until he he is compliant with CPAP. There is no reason for people with sleep apnea to put other peoples' lives at risk.

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Permalink Reply by RD on September 8, 2009 at 6:58pm

Instead of throwing stones at this guy, how about if you try and contact him and invite him into a conversation that would encourage him to get a sleep study done. (Assuming he hasn't done that already.) He blames SA -- was it? We don't know from the article that his claim is even true -- do we?
In my opinion youse guys forgot what this forum is suppose to be about. We don't know what really happened, only the end result. You have no business judging or condemning him. You weren't there. You have no idea what's going on in his life before, during, or after the event. Instead, let's find a way to encourage him and others who may need treatment.
Mike said:

if that's the case, his conduct goes from merely negligent to reckless. it's like playing Russian Roulette with a gun. you know something could go terribly wrong, but you just don't care.

Rock Hinkle said:

That was my guess too.

Mike said:

i'm guessing he falls into the large category of people who know they have it, but aren't doing anything about it.

Rock Hinkle said:

Was he being treated for his apnea? I wonder. It is one thing to know that you have a disorder and do nothing about it. When that untreated disorder puts others at risk it should be treated as a criminal act.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on September 8, 2009 at 7:14pm

valid point that we don't know enough about what happened here. i am open to the possibility that he is not as bad of an actor as my imagination is letting me jump to the conclusion that he might be.

RD said:

Or, don't know what to do about it -- or how? I suspected I might have a sleep disorder for many years. Worked two jobs to pay bills, tried to go to school, even drove a semi for a number of years. It was easy to attribute my "tiredness" to putting in the hours to subsist in my world. Could he be in the same boat? But on the other hand, could SA be a lame excuse for talking on the cell phone, eating or spilling coffee in his lap. The accident did occur during morning commuter hours. . .

Mike said:

i'm guessing he falls into the large category of people who know they have it, but aren't doing anything about it.

Rock Hinkle said:

Was he being treated for his apnea? I wonder. It is one thing to know that you have a disorder and do nothing about it. When that untreated disorder puts others at risk it should be treated as a criminal act.

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Permalink Reply by Judy on September 8, 2009 at 11:09pm

Sorry folks. Driving is a privilege, NOT a right. My oldest daughter was killed by a drunk driver. Driving impaired whether due to drinking or lack of sleep, poor sleep, exhaustion, etc. is NO EXCUSE when you've killed someone or impaired their ability to work or cost them their livelihood or even just damage to their vehicle.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on September 9, 2009 at 1:40am

My point was that it looked like this guy had an accident and blamed it on apnea. This to me says "I have an untreated disorder" meaning that he knew about it. My remarks were meant towards a patient who knew about a disorder and continued to put other people at risk by not treating it, and continuing to drive.

RD said:

Instead of throwing stones at this guy, how about if you try and contact him and invite him into a conversation that would encourage him to get a sleep study done. (Assuming he hasn't done that already.) He blames SA -- was it? We don't know from the article that his claim is even true -- do we?
In my opinion youse guys forgot what this forum is suppose to be about. We don't know what really happened, only the end result. You have no business judging or condemning him. You weren't there. You have no idea what's going on in his life before, during, or after the event. Instead, let's find a way to encourage him and others who may need treatment.
Mike said:

if that's the case, his conduct goes from merely negligent to reckless. it's like playing Russian Roulette with a gun. you know something could go terribly wrong, but you just don't care.

Rock Hinkle said:

That was my guess too.

Mike said:

i'm guessing he falls into the large category of people who know they have it, but aren't doing anything about it.

Rock Hinkle said:

Was he being treated for his apnea? I wonder. It is one thing to know that you have a disorder and do nothing about it. When that untreated disorder puts others at risk it should be treated as a criminal act.

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Permalink Reply by sleepycarol on September 9, 2009 at 8:15am

A friend from our youth has a seizure disorder. He KNOWs he has a seizure disorder. When he was in his early twenties he had a seizure and crashed through a concrete guard railing and went through the windshield. My brother came upon this horrific accident and remembers the car hanging from the railing. The railing is above a major highway. Luckily the car didn't fall on to oncoming traffic on the highway. They didn't think he would make it and he was hospitalized for many months and endured therapy to learn to function again. He was left with massive scarring.

Do you think he learned his lesson? No. His license was taken from him and he drives with no license. He has two more major accidents that are every bit as bad as the one I wrote about above. He has had to endure major surgeries, has lost part of his mental functioning, etc. He has been extremely lucky that no one has been killed. He has no assets, no license, and no insurance. He has had numerous wrecks where property has been damaged and he has left the scene of accidents.
Due to his numerous wrecks he is no longer able to work and the government takes care of him by giving him a housing allowance, food stamps, disability, etc.

He takes medication for his seizures and has never had them under adequate control.

Blaming sleep apnea and still driving puts the guy in the articfle right along with the guy I wrote about. He is not responsible enough to have his driving priveleges if he is not adequately treating his sleep apnea and KNOWS he has itm

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on September 9, 2009 at 8:32am

I understand the accountability thing, Must say, however, I agree with RD that we have no way of knowing what's driving this seemingly reckless behavior. I suspect it's something more than just recklessness. Plus, I wonder how much of it may be due to damaged thought process. It's a startling thing to hear about someone like this. But AGAIN, along with RD, we're in no position to pass judgment on someone's behavior without even knowing the guy.....only my opinion.

Susan McCord

Rock Hinkle said:

My point was that it looked like this guy had an accident and blamed it on apnea. This to me says "I have an untreated disorder" meaning that he knew about it. My remarks were meant towards a patient who knew about a disorder and continued to put other people at risk by not treating it, and continuing to drive.

RD said:

Instead of throwing stones at this guy, how about if you try and contact him and invite him into a conversation that would encourage him to get a sleep study done. (Assuming he hasn't done that already.) He blames SA -- was it? We don't know from the article that his claim is even true -- do we?
In my opinion youse guys forgot what this forum is suppose to be about. We don't know what really happened, only the end result. You have no business judging or condemning him. You weren't there. You have no idea what's going on in his life before, during, or after the event. Instead, let's find a way to encourage him and others who may need treatment.
Mike said:

if that's the case, his conduct goes from merely negligent to reckless. it's like playing Russian Roulette with a gun. you know something could go terribly wrong, but you just don't care.

Rock Hinkle said:

That was my guess too.

Mike said:

i'm guessing he falls into the large category of people who know they have it, but aren't doing anything about it.

Rock Hinkle said:

Was he being treated for his apnea? I wonder. It is one thing to know that you have a disorder and do nothing about it. When that untreated disorder puts others at risk it should be treated as a criminal act.

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Permalink Reply by wallace j smith jr on September 9, 2009 at 2:25pm

id have to agree to have and not be properley treated should be treated as a criminal act..

Rock Hinkle said:

Was he being treated for his apnea? I wonder. It is one thing to know that you have a disorder and do nothing about it. When that untreated disorder puts others at risk it should be treated as a criminal act.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Lyons on September 9, 2009 at 7:41pm

Reckless Driving as defined by WV motor vehicle code (17C-5-3) is he did drive an operate a motor vehicle in "willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property." This section of the motor vehicle code even allows the person to be charge if they are on private property.

If the driver was charged with "failure to maintain control" it is only a minor moving violation (points and a minimal fine).

I have been unable to determine what the driver was charged with, but unless the officer who investigated the accident can access the driver's medical records, I would be willing to bet he was only charged with "Failure to Maintain Control."

The nice thing about the law is the presumption of innocence. It is the officer's responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the driver negligently operated the motor vehicle. The driver can claim the sky was purple, but the officer has to be able to prove it in court. Just because the driver said it was caused by sleep apnea, doesn't make it gospel. The office will make sure all his “I” are dotted and his “T” are crossed. You can bet the driver’s mouthpiece (aka: barrister) will have his done.

Now the holier than though attitude to which some have displayed think back. Did you ever drive and or operate a vehicle after you learned you might have had sleep apnea?

If you drove to or from the physician's office on your first exam and discussed the possibility of sleep apnea, to and from the sleep study, the return trip to the physician for the script and then to the DME for your *PAP - YOU ARE GUILTY OF RECKLESS DRIVING!!!!!! - and that’s before you ever left your driveway.

While I don't condone the driver’s actions or statement, we don't have all the facts nor does the press tell the whole story. The press is interested in but one thing - the sale of their newspaper and a flashy headline. The headline did exactly what they wanted - it got Mike's attention.

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