Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by susan mccord on August 6, 2009 at 9:29pm

Lengthy's fine with me, Dr. Park. This is a lengthy issue.

I do have another question for you, if you don't mind. I've been having a lot of cold/flu like sx since starting on CPAP about a week ago. Thought that was what it was--by now I know it's neither. My head's either stuffy or my nose is running rivers, sometimes within hours of each other. Headache, off and on (I'm not at all prone to headaches by hx). Ache some, off and on, no pattern to it. Sleeping well on CPAP one night then not sleeping well, or long enough the next night. Have just been feeling lousy for a week + now. I've learned on SleepGuide that it's not uncommon for people to get sick during this time with tx, related to hormones/system re-balancing after out of balance for many years (I'm a young 67, and I know that I was having significant snorting that would wake me up (my family used to tease me about it)--that was in the early 70's. From what you're saying, do you think I had apnea way back then? I'm diagnosed severe now. And can you help me better understand this body distress that's clearly related to beginning CPAP? I just don't quite understand what's happening to me, nor how long it may last. I appreciate your time and attention to this. You're an amazing asset to SleepGuide!

Susan McCord Indianapolis IN

Steven Y. Park, MD said:

Comparative anatomists and evolutionary biologists have stated that speech and language development was ultimately detrimental to humans. The upper airway serves three functions: breathing, swallowing and speech, in order of importance. But if the ability to speak overdevelops, then the other two have to suffer. This is why humans have so many problematic issues with breathing and swallowing.

As I describe in my book, Sleep, Interrupted, as part of my sleep-breathing paradigm, the voice box had to descend to a position below the tongue for us to have complex speech and language, creating a gap between the soft palate and epiglottis, called the oropharynx. Only humans have a true oropharynx. So by definition, we all have various degrees of breathing problems, especially at night, when our muscle relax in deep sleep.

We were doing fine until a radical change in our diets (from organic, off the land, ocean or mountains to processed foods and refined sugars) and possibly with the addition of bottle-feeding. Dentists tell us that our jaws are getting smaller and we have much more dental crowding, which leads to airway narrowing.

So in answer to your question, I think yes as well. Sleep apnea doesn't happen all of a sudden then you're middle aged or overweight. It's been developing over years or decades. But a sleep-breathing problem has been there since you were young. Lesser degrees of obstruction and arousal but not severe enough to be called sleep apnea occurs almost routinely. But if you have too many of these micro-arousals that don't meet the definition of an apnea, then your entire physiology and biochemistry changes. An imbalanced involuntary nervous system wreaks havoc on your body. You'll have various degrees of depression, anxiety, GI problems, urinary and reproductive issues, recurrent infections, and even cancer and Alzheimer's. I can't say that a sleep-breathing problem is the sole cause of all these conditions, but it can definitely aggravate all these conditions, if you're already predisposed. I explain this more fully in my book.

Yes, there are reports of CPAP curing everything, from sleep-walking to cluster headaches to rhythmic movement disorders to irritable bowel syndrome to frequent trips to the bathroom at night. If CPAP doesn't work, then dental appliances and even surgery can make huge differences. I've seen amazing things happen with all three modalities. Unfortunately, by the time obstructive sleep apnea is discovered, in most cases, it's too late. Some damage has already been done. Sleep apnea set up an increased inflammatory state in your body as well as making you more susceptible to blood clots in various areas of your body.

If you have a very large clot from your heart or your carotid artery, then you'll have the classic stroke. But if you have microscopic areas of brain damage over many years due to inflammation and clotting, then slowly but surely, you'll have symptoms later on in your life. A recent specialized brain imaging study showed that sleep apnea patients have multiple areas of brain damaged tissue, all over the brain. Another study showed a much higher incidence of "lacunar infarcts" in sleep apnea patients. Imagine how even a very small clot or stroke in critical areas of your brain could lead to neuromuscular problems, hormonal imbalances, memory problems, and even central respiratory drive problems.

I could go on and on about all the various links between sleep-breathing problems and various medical conditions, but I'll stop here. Sorry for the lengthy reply.

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on August 6, 2009 at 9:36pm

Susan McCord--addendum to Dr. Park--I forgot to tell you that I was diagnosed with CAD 10/05, have had depression/anxiety/inflammation issues for many years. All are being medically treated with good success to date with Rx. Can taking many necessary meds have an impact on anything I've been talking about???

susan mccord said:

Lengthy's fine with me, Dr. Park. This is a lengthy issue.

I do have another question for you, if you don't mind. I've been having a lot of cold/flu like sx since starting on CPAP about a week ago. Thought that was what it was--by now I know it's neither. My head's either stuffy or my nose is running rivers, sometimes within hours of each other. Headache, off and on (I'm not at all prone to headaches by hx). Ache some, off and on, no pattern to it. Sleeping well on CPAP one night then not sleeping well, or long enough the next night. Have just been feeling lousy for a week + now. I've learned on SleepGuide that it's not uncommon for people to get sick during this time with tx, related to hormones/system re-balancing after out of balance for many years (I'm a young 67, and I know that I was having significant snorting that would wake me up (my family used to tease me about it)--that was in the early 70's. From what you're saying, do you think I had apnea way back then? I'm diagnosed severe now. And can you help me better understand this body distress that's clearly related to beginning CPAP? I just don't quite understand what's happening to me, nor how long it may last. I appreciate your time and attention to this. You're an amazing asset to SleepGuide!

Susan McCord Indianapolis IN

Steven Y. Park, MD said:

Comparative anatomists and evolutionary biologists have stated that speech and language development was ultimately detrimental to humans. The upper airway serves three functions: breathing, swallowing and speech, in order of importance. But if the ability to speak overdevelops, then the other two have to suffer. This is why humans have so many problematic issues with breathing and swallowing.

As I describe in my book, Sleep, Interrupted, as part of my sleep-breathing paradigm, the voice box had to descend to a position below the tongue for us to have complex speech and language, creating a gap between the soft palate and epiglottis, called the oropharynx. Only humans have a true oropharynx. So by definition, we all have various degrees of breathing problems, especially at night, when our muscle relax in deep sleep.

We were doing fine until a radical change in our diets (from organic, off the land, ocean or mountains to processed foods and refined sugars) and possibly with the addition of bottle-feeding. Dentists tell us that our jaws are getting smaller and we have much more dental crowding, which leads to airway narrowing.

So in answer to your question, I think yes as well. Sleep apnea doesn't happen all of a sudden then you're middle aged or overweight. It's been developing over years or decades. But a sleep-breathing problem has been there since you were young. Lesser degrees of obstruction and arousal but not severe enough to be called sleep apnea occurs almost routinely. But if you have too many of these micro-arousals that don't meet the definition of an apnea, then your entire physiology and biochemistry changes. An imbalanced involuntary nervous system wreaks havoc on your body. You'll have various degrees of depression, anxiety, GI problems, urinary and reproductive issues, recurrent infections, and even cancer and Alzheimer's. I can't say that a sleep-breathing problem is the sole cause of all these conditions, but it can definitely aggravate all these conditions, if you're already predisposed. I explain this more fully in my book.

Yes, there are reports of CPAP curing everything, from sleep-walking to cluster headaches to rhythmic movement disorders to irritable bowel syndrome to frequent trips to the bathroom at night. If CPAP doesn't work, then dental appliances and even surgery can make huge differences. I've seen amazing things happen with all three modalities. Unfortunately, by the time obstructive sleep apnea is discovered, in most cases, it's too late. Some damage has already been done. Sleep apnea set up an increased inflammatory state in your body as well as making you more susceptible to blood clots in various areas of your body.

If you have a very large clot from your heart or your carotid artery, then you'll have the classic stroke. But if you have microscopic areas of brain damage over many years due to inflammation and clotting, then slowly but surely, you'll have symptoms later on in your life. A recent specialized brain imaging study showed that sleep apnea patients have multiple areas of brain damaged tissue, all over the brain. Another study showed a much higher incidence of "lacunar infarcts" in sleep apnea patients. Imagine how even a very small clot or stroke in critical areas of your brain could lead to neuromuscular problems, hormonal imbalances, memory problems, and even central respiratory drive problems.

I could go on and on about all the various links between sleep-breathing problems and various medical conditions, but I'll stop here. Sorry for the lengthy reply.

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Permalink Reply by Remy Thierry on August 8, 2009 at 3:33pm

I read on a website that you can have depression after you are cured of sleep apnea with CPAP. Strange...It says that when you realize that you have lost many good years of your life in a state of somnolence, then is a reason to be depressed. Or, patients may be pushed too fast into the active life, after their successful treatment, and they may feel strange about how to deal with this changes.
The site is www.sleep-apnea-guide.com

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Permalink Reply by Banyon on August 10, 2009 at 4:43pm

T. Alex said:

I read on a website that you can have depression after you are cured of sleep apnea with CPAP. Strange...It says that when you realize that you have lost many good years of your life in a state of somnolence, then is a reason to be depressed. Or, patients may be pushed too fast into the active life, after their successful treatment, and they may feel strange about how to deal with this changes.
The site is www.sleep-apnea-guide.com

Not to mention that CPAP doesn't immediately, if ever, repair the years of damage done to the brain while you were undiagnosed/untreated. There are good studies, including one from UCLA, showing the damage to the brain.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on August 10, 2009 at 4:53pm

i am terribly forgetful for a 35 year old. i would probably cringe if i knew how many brain cells i killed while untreated.

Banyon said:

T. Alex said:

I read on a website that you can have depression after you are cured of sleep apnea with CPAP. Strange...It says that when you realize that you have lost many good years of your life in a state of somnolence, then is a reason to be depressed. Or, patients may be pushed too fast into the active life, after their successful treatment, and they may feel strange about how to deal with this changes.
The site is www.sleep-apnea-guide.com

Not to mention that CPAP doesn't immediately, if ever, repair the years of damage done to the brain while you were undiagnosed/untreated. There are good studies, including one from UCLA, showing the damage to the brain.

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