Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by assholes showing my profile when on February 13, 2010 at 4:34pm

Mr Hinkle you are right aging is a difficult process. We are a degenerative cell. We do not get better as we get older. As for my condition, I knew what I was facing medically with a diagnosis but one does not treat themselves. Ethically it would not be a good thing to do write myself scripts and orders for medical care in my State. I would probably have my license pulled.
Like an attorney only a fool represents them in a court of law well with medical professions I am not allowed to treat myself and I would be a fool if I did and get into trouble.

Yes you are also right about age and weight gain. As we get older 54 plus % of Americans are overweight between ages 45 and 50 and it gets worse. But there can be no reason why one cannot combat obesity with a strong will and hard work. If you only knew what I have been through with my own medical issues, you would think twice about NOT wanting to work hard and achieve an appropriate weight for ones age. Life is never easy and sometimes health can be a challenge. I have myself been through 13 surgeries, and have numerous medical issues. I have always made a pact with myself that I would never let myself get heavy becuase I knew I did, I would be in more trouble than I am today. Having Addisons and being on hydro; weight gain is almost a sure thing. So what I did I went back to school. This made me very busy. I even had two tumors removed in the occipital region of my brain while doing this. I also deal with pain every day and take methadone and nerve blocks to help with relief. my injury is what brought me into the medical profession. It is what also helped me maintain my weight. I want to help others any way I can with thier health issue because when I was ill, I could not find a physician who was willing to help me especially when I almost died from Addisons disease. I almost died until my practitoner listened to me regarding my diagnosis. He listen and I proceeded to a local hospital where I was tetsted and found to have Addisons disease.

So from all this I am just trying to get people to think about thier medical issues. Research them. Know what causes them. Ask your doctor questions and ask about all options. Pursue those options they may make you better. In the medical profession you are often challenged by non-compliant patiens and patients who will not do anything to help themselves. I have learned their is nothing further we can do but educate and advise and then hope the patient will make all the right decisions. I am hoping from all this someone will take the initiate to look further than just wearing a Cpap. I want them to search for all ways out if possible. A Cpap does not have to be a life sentence if alternatives exist. And for those who say sugerical intervention is not always the way, I would beg to differ because sugerical intervention although it has risks, most of the time the surgical intervention and result from the surgical intervention produce results that outweight the rsik and the patient gets better or quality of life is positive. I did not write to fight but rather to raise awareness to always look for a cure or positive result no matter how much you are told no, or theres nothing else.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on February 13, 2010 at 4:41pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15893251?ordinalpos=1&itool=...$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

Sleep apnea is a manifestation of the metabolic syndrome.
Vgontzas AN, Bixler EO, Chrousos GP.

Department of Psychiatry H073, Penn State College of Medicine, 500 University Drive, Hershey, PA 17033, USA. axv3@psu.edu

Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is a prevalent disorder particularly among middle-aged, obese men, although its existence in women as well as in lean individuals is increasingly recognized. Despite the early recognition of the strong association between OSA and obesity, and OSA and cardiovascular problems, sleep apnea has been treated as a 'local abnormality' of the respiratory track rather than as a 'systemic illness.' In 1997, we first reported that the pro-inflammatory cytokines interleukin-6 (IL-6) and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNFalpha) were elevated in patients with disorders of excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS) and proposed that these cytokines were mediators of daytime sleepiness. Also, we reported a positive correlation between IL-6 or TNFalpha plasma levels and the body-mass-index (BMI). In subsequent studies, we showed that IL-6, TNFalpha, and insulin levels were elevated in sleep apnea independently of obesity and that visceral fat, was the primary parameter linked with sleep apnea. Furthermore, our findings that women with the polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) (a condition associated with hyperandrogenism and insulin resistance) were much more likely than controls to have sleep disordered breathing (SDB) and daytime sleepiness, suggests a pathogenetic role of insulin resistance in OSA. Other findings that support the view that sleep apnea and sleepiness in obese patients may be manifestations of the Metabolic Syndrome, include: obesity without sleep apnea is associated with daytime sleepiness; PCOS and diabetes type 2 are independently associated with EDS after controlling for SDB, obesity, and age; increased prevalence of sleep apnea in post-menopausal women, with hormonal replacement therapy associated with a significantly reduced risk for OSA; lack of effect of continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) in obese patients with apnea on hypercytokinemia and insulin resistance indices; and that the prevalence of the metabolic syndrome in the US population from the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (1988-1994) parallels the prevalence of symptomatic sleep apnea in general random samples. Finally, the beneficial effect of a cytokine antagonist on EDS in obese, male apneics and that of exercise on SDB in a general random sample, supports the hypothesis that cytokines and insulin resistance are mediators of EDS and sleep apnea in humans. In conclusion, accumulating evidence provides support to our model of the bi-directional, feed forward, pernicious association between sleep apnea, sleepiness, inflammation, and insulin resistance, all promoting atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on February 13, 2010 at 4:46pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19961023?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEn...

CONCLUSIONS: A supportive diet and exercise program may be of benefit to obese patients with mild to moderate sleep apnea. The results of this feasibility study showed significant weight loss and improvement in clinically important neurobehavioral and cardiometabolic outcomes but no significant change in sleep disordered breathing. These promising preliminary results need confirmation with a larger randomized trial.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on February 13, 2010 at 5:34pm

Richard I applaud what you have done. Prior to getting into the health community I knew nothing of healthy living. I also continue to fight with my weight loss. I did not mean to act as though I was fighting with you. I know that sometime my aggressiveness can get the better of me. My intentions were not to demean you or your journey, but rather to offer the other side of the story. Devils advocate is what I do best. Ask jnk. Your original post did call for some debate.

I agree that CPAP is not the only alternative for apnea. If surgery does not cure apnea many times it will provide an easier way of dealing with it. However for many of us CPAP is a life sentence. One that should not be looked at with anger or resentment, but with hope of a longer more energetic life. I have seen people that were sent home to die return to life through PAP therapy many, many times. While being a little leary of some of your statements, I am very happy that you have found a healthy balance in your life. I am also very happy that you are telling your story. Had you have told this story prior to your comments I probably would have approached it different.

Have you had a PSG to confirm your cure of apnea. If not it is my proffessional opinion that you should. My mother had a golfball sized tumor removed from her frontal lobe. She did not have apnea pre-surgery. Post surgery she develped CSA. Now she is on a Auto-servo ventilator. Fun fun

richard rydza said:

Mr Hinkle you are right aging is a difficult process. We are a degenerative cell. We do not get better as we get older. As for my condition, I knew what I was facing medically with a diagnosis but one does not treat themselves. Ethically it would not be a good thing to do write myself scripts and orders for medical care in my State. I would probably have my license pulled.
Like an attorney only a fool represents them in a court of law well with medical professions I am not allowed to treat myself and I would be a fool if I did and get into trouble.

Yes you are also right about age and weight gain. As we get older 54 plus % of Americans are overweight between ages 45 and 50 and it gets worse. But there can be no reason why one cannot combat obesity with a strong will and hard work. If you only knew what I have been through with my own medical issues, you would think twice about NOT wanting to work hard and achieve an appropriate weight for ones age. Life is never easy and sometimes health can be a challenge. I have myself been through 13 surgeries, and have numerous medical issues. I have always made a pact with myself that I would never let myself get heavy becuase I knew I did, I would be in more trouble than I am today. Having Addisons and being on hydro; weight gain is almost a sure thing. So what I did I went back to school. This made me very busy. I even had two tumors removed in the occipital region of my brain while doing this. I also deal with pain every day and take methadone and nerve blocks to help with relief. my injury is what brought me into the medical profession. It is what also helped me maintain my weight. I want to help others any way I can with thier health issue because when I was ill, I could not find a physician who was willing to help me especially when I almost died from Addisons disease. I almost died until my practitoner listened to me regarding my diagnosis. He listen and I proceeded to a local hospital where I was tetsted and found to have Addisons disease.

So from all this I am just trying to get people to think about thier medical issues. Research them. Know what causes them. Ask your doctor questions and ask about all options. Pursue those options they may make you better. In the medical profession you are often challenged by non-compliant patiens and patients who will not do anything to help themselves. I have learned their is nothing further we can do but educate and advise and then hope the patient will make all the right decisions. I am hoping from all this someone will take the initiate to look further than just wearing a Cpap. I want them to search for all ways out if possible. A Cpap does not have to be a life sentence if alternatives exist. And for those who say sugerical intervention is not always the way, I would beg to differ because sugerical intervention although it has risks, most of the time the surgical intervention and result from the surgical intervention produce results that outweight the rsik and the patient gets better or quality of life is positive. I did not write to fight but rather to raise awareness to always look for a cure or positive result no matter how much you are told no, or theres nothing else.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on February 13, 2010 at 7:33pm

Richard having re-read your post again I believe that I have the true meaning of there nature. I agree that a return to a healthier lifestyle is the key to beating any medical disorder. While looking for fuel to support my own arguments I did find some supporting yours as well.

Run your ideas through the Pubmed search engine you. There is a particularly nice one on CHF and it causing a narrowing of the airway.

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on February 13, 2010 at 8:56pm

WOW!!, This is an amazing Discussion you've sparked, Richard!! I too have read a lot of Mayo's information re: sleep apnea--being a heart patient who spent 5 days at a Mayo-sponsored Leadership Training Symposium for women with heart disease in Rochester, I have been privy to a great deal of information emanating directly from Mayo staff MDs about the relationship of heart disease to many other medical problems, one of which is apnea. Please note I repeated my former word "relationship"/relational regarding this whole topic.

I agree with Rock, in that having now heard some of your own personal story, it's clear that you've been to the wall yourself in a # of instances. So have many people on SleepGuide, in one way or another. You're among friends here, Richard. Trust me on that one.

I'm not certain how much time you've had to explore some of the various groups associated with SleepGuide. These groups are ALL member-driven and member-inspired. You're likely to come to understand the enormous effort that many, many people are making in order to improve their health overall. It's complicated business and, and in my opinion only, it doesn't lend itself to judgmental, generalized responses that can make people in all kinds of medical situations, including you and me!, somehow feel they're to blame for their medical problems, including sleep apnea. I think that may be part of some of the resistance you're experiencing on this Discussion. It's not that you're wrong about your assertions--again, it's more that people seem confused in some different ways by the way you state your concerns.

Your message about all of us examining our own health problems for clues to how we might best proceed makes total sense to me. And I agree with you 100%. I'm wondering if your approach to these very important issues might be better served with a softer dialogue--not to change the content!, but to allow people a little more room to hear what you have to say......is that about as clear as mud??? lol What do you think???

Susan McCord :-)

Rock Hinkle said:

Richard having re-read your post again I believe that I have the true meaning of there nature. I agree that a return to a healthier lifestyle is the key to beating any medical disorder. While looking for fuel to support my own arguments I did find some supporting yours as well.

Run your ideas through the Pubmed search engine you. There is a particularly nice one on CHF and it causing a narrowing of the airway.

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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on February 13, 2010 at 9:59pm

I agree that PAP treatment is the gold standard for the treatment of OSA. Period.

Hi Jeff! ;-)

Susan

j n k said:

PAP therapy remains the gold standard for the treatment of obstructive sleep apnea.

People in denial write funny stuff.

But PAP therapy remains the gold standard for the treatment of obstructive apnea.

Oh, and did I mention that PAP therapy is the gold standard for the treatment of obstructive sleep apnea?

If I didn't, I would just like to say that PAP therapy is the gold standard for the treatment of obstructive sleep apnea.

:-)

jeff

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