"please keep me updated about oximeters "
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When was sleep apnea first identified or reported?
Thomas Roger Williams posted this question to "articles" section instead of here, so reposting here:
"i want to know is this a western phenomina cause by poor diet?
and any interesting investigations as to why it is so previlent
and what can we do to prevent problems before they occur
is it cause by vitamin B deficency and the like"
"i want to know is this a western phenomina cause by poor diet?
and any interesting investigations as to why it is so previlent
and what can we do to prevent problems before they occur
is it cause by vitamin B deficency and the like"
Views: 200
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by susan mccord on
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THAT'S an interesting question!!!
McCord
99 said:Do pigmies and other indigious people with small jaws present the same problem in significant numbers have OSA or do their diet keep them health from this problem
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Permalink Reply by 99 on
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what is the incident rate of OSA in Scotland uk
as they eat porrage oats, usually with salt in the porrage
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Permalink Reply by Mary T on
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While I am a 55-yr old female with sleep apnea which was diagnosed over 2 years ago but I was too stubborn to do anything about it until this year, I now am on a cpap machine. I find this to be a godsend (the only thing I don't like is the grooves in my face when I take the mask off in the morning!). I am overweight (and now working on that issue with weight and exercise). Yet, both my father and his father (my grandfather) were thin as rails and did they ever snore.
Both my father and grandfather had the type of snoring that was the type where the snoring would escalate louder and louder until they would stop. Then, we would lay there waiting for each of them to start breathing again, out loud of course, to then know that each of them was still alive. I don't know how my mother was able to tolerate it for years with my father. Even through closed doors we kids could hear them. I snore but was told by my husband that it's not the type of snoring that escalates into a 'crescendo' of noise. It was just continuous, at least until he would jab me with his hand or leg to get me to stop! Heck, I would wake myself up continuously. No wonder I was sleep-deprived.
So, to say that sleep apnea is strictly weight-related would not apply to both of them. For me, yes. And, it is probably a combination of heredity and weight issues for me. Still, I find this very interesting.
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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While I agree with you jnk we still have to question those of us whom continue to put on weight and yet do nothing about it. What do you tell people whom are obese and don't think they have a health problem?
"Sometimes the underlying condition is sleep apnea itself; other times the underlying condition leads to weight gain which then leads to apnea. It depends."
Sometimes the problem is that we do not have the will power and or the smarts to stop or recognize a problem. Our diets play a huge roll in our health. We can control what we put into our bodies. Most choose not to. Myself included to a point. Yes anatomy plays a big roll in apnea, but BMI plays the biggest. If we can blame obesity on so many other things then why aren’t more obese people healthy? While apnea and other sleep disorder awareness are on the rise. The percentage of skinny people coming to our lab is not. I would say 1 in 5 is skinny or healthy. That is a guestiment. I’ll give you 20 percent, and most of these patients are older with large necks. So by that we have to look at whether weight and age both play a larger part than anatomy. I’m not disagreeing with anyone. Just painting the picture as my role allows me to see it. America is ranked 50th among the other countries in life expectancy, yet are medical complex is ranked number 1. Does that make sense. If you eat fast food, empty calories, or over indulge in sweets more than once a week then you should not be able to say with a straight face thatyour health issues are not self induced. I understand the cravings brought on by a lack of deep sleep. As free thinking humans MOST of us know that these indulgences are wrong. I am not saying that anyone is stupid, but if your body weight increases by 10% and you do not go to the doctor you are not being smart.
http://kaleidos.org.uk/PDF/Pictorial%20overview.pdf
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Permalink Reply by Rock Conner RRT on
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I think so, Susan. Though I think many of us earned our OSA, some folks are just built with pipes that result in OSA. The example I always remember is a patient who was the 31 year-old mother of three, of short stature, a triathlete who had once "maybe" weighed as much as 100 lbs when pregnant, who had an AHI over 30 & was said to rattle windows with her snoring.
OSA is not just a disorder of carb lovers, but we are WELL represented.
susan mccord said:Rock (either of you!)--I'm not overweight and was not overweight when I first had symptoms of apnea back in the early 70's.
Should I then assume that I have a jaw issue? My dentist told me, several years ago, that I had an unusually shaped jaw and wouldn't be hard to identify if I were found dead somewhere!! (we were kidding around at the time). I didn't inquire any further about what she meant, but I'm going to next time I go in. My jaw/chin doesn't recede or seem unusual from the outside--doesn't match criteria I've heard described on SG, so it must be some kind of internal structure she was talking about. Is this the jaw issue you guys talk about?
Susan McCord
Rock Conner RRT said:Dr. Park's comment was thorough & I agree from a meta perspective, though I would add that the US OSA patient population I have observed, most notably including myself, there are an extraordinary number of subjects who are obese and beyond. That observation leads me to painfully conclude that many, and perhaps most US OSA patients have personally overeaten their way into their condition.
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Come on jnk! Your going to guilt me with the "high moral ground". That is not fair and you know it. You are a better talker then that. I in no way was trying to be judgemental. I am also very sympathetic to the effects caused by apnea and bad sleep. I apologize if I offended anyone. I recognize that a large number of people are unhealthy due to factors not of their own choice. For those of us that are unhealthy because of our own choices we are not doing them/us/me any favors by labeling other problems as ours. We are not helping these people we are enabling them. Sometimes tough love should be the prescribed medicine. Instead we sit back and watch our friends, family, and peers kill themselves because we do not want to hurt their feelings. I would rather tell someone the truth and be able to apoligize to them, then go to their funeral. it is not always about being liked jnk. As far as your last statement goes your not the first man to punch me in the face. I assume that all of my patients are in a life and death situation, and treat them as such.
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Let me see if I can help a bit here. While I have been significantly overweight at times during my adulthood (and am now), I really do bristle at the word choice. I believe that we are way in the dark about the causes of obesity and even the causes of overeating. I have seen people of enormous "willpower," fortitude and focus have the goal of weight loss be their single notable failure. I count myself among those people, though I am unwilling to give up.
I believe that we actually know very little about the root causes of this disease beyond the simple equation of calories in and calories out. Recall please, that it was not that many years ago that electro shock treatment was routinely used for depression,(not to mention lobotomies), that we were ignorant of chemical imbalances and bi-polar disorder, and a host of other enlightenments that the last 20 years have brought us. In the "self-inflicted" category, look how far we have come in our treatment and compassion about alcholism, addiction etc. in only the last 20 ish years.
I am suggesting, as I believe the previous poster was, that we all work a bit to have an open mind about this and recognize that we simply do not have all of the medical information at this point in time. It is way too easy to blame people for what appears to be a very self inflicted condition and in doing so, overlook the rigorous scientific inquiry necessary to better understand what combination of factors might be at play.
In the meantime, I will continue to work out with a personal trainer 5x a week and eat as healthfully and consciously as I am able... and hope that I don't beat myself up too badly if and when I fail again.
Rock Hinkle said:Come on jnk! Your going to guilt me with the "high moral ground". That is not fair and you know it. You are a better talker then that. I in no way was trying to be judgemental. I am also very sympathetic to the effects caused by apnea and bad sleep. I apologize if I offended anyone. I recognize that a large number of people are unhealthy due to factors not of their own choice. For those of us that are unhealthy because of our own choices we are not doing them/us/me any favors by labeling other problems as ours. We are not helping these people we are enabling them. Sometimes tough love should be the prescribed medicine. Instead we sit back and watch our friends, family, and peers kill themselves because we do not want to hurt their feelings. I would rather tell someone the truth and be able to apoligize to them, then go to their funeral. it is not always about being liked jnk. As far as your last statement goes your not the first man to punch me in the face. I assume that all of my patients are in a life and death situation, and treat them as such.
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All I am saying is that we can't always blame something or someone else for the way that we are. For those of you that can my sympathy to you. I truly hope that one day you beat whatever it is that inflicts you. I too struggle to lose weight. had I recognized my bad choices earlier in life I might not have the fight that I have now. To be healthy we have to commit to a healthy lifestyle. Just going on CPAP therapy by itslef does not make you healthy, or does being obese make you unhealthy. If you continue to eat McDonalds 3-5 times a week and tell yourself that your bad health is due to a disorder then you are delusional.Just my opinion. You talk of addiction. I have had addictions. In my case I had to admit to my own personal faults to beat that addiction. the first step was admitting that I had a problem. This was a debate not the finger pointing that I feel it turned into.
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Permalink Reply by birdshell on
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In my experience, tough love rarely (if ever) works in a clinical setting. Tough love was formulated as a technique of last resort for parents. These parents had not provided opportunities for their children to experience age-appropriate consequences for their choices. Once into the teenaged years, the stakes become much higher. If the choice-making mechanism is not effectively practiced, those life threatening consequences loom. Then, tough love enters in as an emergency technique that is a last-ditch effort,
What does work, IMHO, is empathy (NOT sympathy) combined with education. It seems to me that Mehmet Oz, MD demonstrates this concept rather well on Oprah and his own TV shows. We do know a lot about the human body, but there is much more to know. Are we sure that what we are doing is truly good for our physiology and anatomy? i.e., When I was a child, polyunsaturated fats were considered best. So, we all switched to margarine, which, it turns out, has transfats. Hmmmmm...maybe we were better off with butter?
Are we not usually doing the best we can, with the information that we have? And, why are so many people issued CPAP and not compliant? IMHO, and IMHE, we are often treated with a lack of understanding and explanation of important factors. To whit, the popularity of this sounding board and others.
Treat me with tough love, and I am highly more likely to become angry and rebel, especially if I am trying to do my best under the situation. Treat me with some understanding, tell me why this is important to me, and listen to my opinions and objections. The latter just may cause me to do more business for the DME than if I leave.
Sorry, Rock Hinkle... "tough love" is too tough from someone who does not truly know me. Apologies afterward aren't going to be very helpful if I never come back to hear them, are they?
Rock Hinkle said:Come on jnk! Your going to guilt me with the "high moral ground". That is not fair and you know it. You are a better talker then that. I in no way was trying to be judgemental. I am also very sympathetic to the effects caused by apnea and bad sleep. I apologize if I offended anyone. I recognize that a large number of people are unhealthy due to factors not of their own choice. For those of us that are unhealthy because of our own choices we are not doing them/us/me any favors by labeling other problems as ours. We are not helping these people we are enabling them. Sometimes tough love should be the prescribed medicine. Instead we sit back and watch our friends, family, and peers kill themselves because we do not want to hurt their feelings. I would rather tell someone the truth and be able to apoligize to them, then go to their funeral. it is not always about being liked jnk. As far as your last statement goes your not the first man to punch me in the face. I assume that all of my patients are in a life and death situation, and treat them as such.
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.I agree that empathy and education work best.
Who said anything about tough love in a clinical standing? I do not practice tough love with my patients or with anyone I do not know for that matter. I did not point any fingers at anyone but myself. My statements were very general. I am very empathetic to my patient's situations. Does that mean that sometimes people do not need tough love? No, or does it put me in a position to implement it. This was a discussion on the causes and the roots of apnea. i believe that just as many people are unhealthy due to lifestyle decisions as due to underlying conditions
Education is a grey area to bring up because we do not all learn in the same way. Some people NEED to be told what to do. I do agree that we have a long way to go in the understanding of the physiology of our bodies, but that should in no way justify us in not holding ourselves accountable for our own bad decisions. SOMETIMES we are our own disorder. The majority of addictions start with a bad choice. All of us are here because in some way or another we want to better ourselves. That is not the case with everyone.
You bring up a good point with compliance. Most people are noncompliant because of a lack of education and or time spent with them during the acclimation period.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=historys...
I have had great success in my practices at getting these patients on PAP. Getting people healthy again is my goal. I am currently helping to implement a PAP-NAP program to this effect. However it does not matter with some how much time or education you put into them. They make the CHOICE not to comply with their therapy. There is a lot we know about our bodies and the health there of yet we choose to ignore it and then make excuses for why we do it.
You are assuming that you know me based on this one debate.
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This is new to me. never before on sleepguide have any of my statements been so disliked. It has been fun. I have to go to a meeting on billing at the hospital, then I am going to start celebrating my birthday. have a great weekend everyone! I know I will. I wish all of you good health and an uneventful night's sleep.
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a lot of truth has been mentioned hear but please no bulling as i did start it all off as a genuine inquiry so as to better my education into OSA and not to cause arguments among friends who can help us in our hour of need. sometime we need something like this to get to the bottom of thing with our friends yes they are you friends also and they are truly remarkabe friends to have when problems arise let us solve them together for benefit of the many let us kiss and make up we are in this together
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