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What is REM rebound?
Before starting cpap, I had very vivid dreams. I thought it was weird that I was having so many apneas during REM, but maybe that is why I remembered my vivid dreams, I was always waking up. I feel like I am not having any now. I have been on cpap about 10 nights now.
I have seen the phrase REM rebound on some posts. Could someone tell me what it is?
I have seen the phrase REM rebound on some posts. Could someone tell me what it is?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Marie Davis on
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Not sure what it isbut I have been on my CPAP now for about 6 months and I just started having dreams again that I can remember. It was exciting to know I am actually getting some REM sleep now!! Best of luck to you...marie
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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REM rebound is an extended period of REM caused by pap therapy. Generally an apnaec person will be the deep restorative sleep of REM and stage 3 sleep. Typically we have more events in REM which knocks us back into a lighter sleep. This also denies us REM. A person with severe apnea will go weeks if not months without REM. This is what makes you feel so tired. REM rebound is what happens when your PAP therapy allows you to reach a true REM again. I am at work now, but when I get home I will post some more info about it. Search "REM rebound" and "NREM vs REM sleep" in the sleepguide search engine.
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Permalink Reply by D. W. Conn on
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REM is of course dreaming. Dreaming is nothing more than clutter being cleaned from the brain. Images, background noise, conversations, old high school buddies, and so on. The brain de-clutters on average every 90 to 120 minutes during the night. When someone’s sleep is interrupted due to something such as apnea the brain gets behind in house cleaning. Once the sleep issue is corrected the brain has to play catch up and toss out all the not needed information. The forebrain is logical and wants to make sense of all this activity and puts the images in an order you can understand. Say you have the images being purged cat, cup, breakfast meal. Your brain knows cups hold water and that cats swim so you may dream there is a cat swimming in your morning coffee. Weird images, true but logical to your brain. …basically REM rebound is catch up housecleaning for your brain.
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Wow! Dr. Conn, that was a great way to word it. I have read many theories on REM, but the defragging theory is one of my favorites. How would you correlate the effects of fatigue as it relates to a lack of REM? What about n3 or SWS being the fountain of youth? Sorry REM and SWS are my to favorite subjects of sleep. Which do you think are more important SWS rebound or REM rebound?
D. W. Conn said:REM is of course dreaming. Dreaming is nothing more than clutter being cleaned from the brain. Images, background noise, conversations, old high school buddies, and so on. The brain de-clutters on average every 90 to 120 minutes during the night. When someone’s sleep is interrupted due to something such as apnea the brain gets behind in house cleaning. Once the sleep issue is corrected the brain has to play catch up and toss out all the not needed information. The forebrain is logical and wants to make sense of all this activity and puts the images in an order you can understand. Say you have the images being purged cat, cup, breakfast meal. Your brain knows cups hold water and that cats swim so you may dream there is a cat swimming in your morning coffee. Weird images, true but logical to your brain. …basically REM rebound is catch up housecleaning for your brain.
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First I am not a physician highest degree is MS Neuro-Biology as related to evolutionary sciences,
REM is needed to keep your cognitive abilities sharp, Without REM you can become psychotic and or have a mental break. So it is very important. SWS is recooperative and body regeneration time. Body healing and in children Growth hormone is secreted, Important for development. These 2 are equally important.
Sleep is the first line treatment for any ailment. Not until the Mid 80s was sleep taken serious. We were left in the background amoung the para-sciences. Now its understood Improve Sleep improve health. There is so much to say about sleep dep. etc, Cardiac abnormalities, flutter-fib, R on T etc. ..parasomnias are also most interesting.. wow I could go on and on.
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Permalink Reply by Julia on
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Interesting. So, I should be having more dreams, not less???? Or is it just that I am not waking up and interrupting the dreams so I don't remember them? I have always felt like I was on dream over drive and now that I have started cpap, I feel like I fall asleep and fall into a dark oblivion. I must be getting REM because I feel good when I wake up.
Rock Hinkle said:REM rebound is an extended period of REM caused by pap therapy. Generally an apnaec person will be the deep restorative sleep of REM and stage 3 sleep. Typically we have more events in REM which knocks us back into a lighter sleep. This also denies us REM. A person with severe apnea will go weeks if not months without REM. This is what makes you feel so tired. REM rebound is what happens when your PAP therapy allows you to reach a true REM again. I am at work now, but when I get home I will post some more info about it. Search "REM rebound" and "NREM vs REM sleep" in the sleepguide search engine.
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The theory goes that you only remember the dreams that you wake up during or shortly after. if Conn's and other researchers are right about the defragging theory then as you have these deams or thoughts you are eather organizing them as permenant memories or deleting them.
Along with the defragging theory your brain repairs or rewires itself during REM. This is the reason that chidren have so much REM during the brain development years. This could also be another reason we see REM rebound as the o2 deprivation from apnea can damage the brain.
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Permalink Reply by David Stillwagon on
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It is strange but I have sleep apnea and I don't use a cpap but I have dreams too. I have always heard that dreams occur during REM, which sleep apnea patients never reach
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Sleep Apnea interrupts dreams so when you fall back you begin to dream. If all is going well with your sleep...well chances are you will not remember your dreams nor should you try. If you write your dreams down in a book all that purged junk is refiled to be reshuffled and purged again... you know the same dream 3 nights in a row...sorry it isn't dream haunting its just tossing out the same trash night after night. relax toss out the trash and move on to some fun stuff!!
Rock do you work in the Biz?
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I am a tech in indy. Sometimes it is fun to chase a dream. that is to say try to continue a good one. it used to scare the hell out of me when i realized that I was dreaming and could not get out(sleep paralysis). Now i run with it. I am never in control, just sometimes able to enjoy the ride. i would probably have quite a bit of alpha intrusion in my REM.
Just the way you worded it puts alot of things into perspective.
D. W. Conn said:Sleep Apnea interrupts dreams so when you fall back you begin to dream. If all is going well with your sleep...well chances are you will not remember your dreams nor should you try. If you write your dreams down in a book all that purged junk is refiled to be reshuffled and purged again... you know the same dream 3 nights in a row...sorry it isn't dream haunting its just tossing out the same trash night after night. relax toss out the trash and move on to some fun stuff!!
Rock do you work in the Biz?
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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fascinating thread. When my wife was not treating her apnea, she had very vivid dreams that she could remember. Now that she's on CPAP, she hardly ever remembers her dreams. Myself, I rarely dreamt/remembered my dreams before CPAP, then experienced a period of vivid dreams upon starting CPAP, and now am back to not remembering my dreams.
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i also go through phases of dreaming mike. i think for the most part it is better not to remember them because like Conn said then they are gone.
Mike said:fascinating thread. When my wife was not treating her apnea, she had very vivid dreams that she could remember. Now that she's on CPAP, she hardly ever remembers her dreams. Myself, I rarely dreamt/remembered my dreams before CPAP, then experienced a period of vivid dreams upon starting CPAP, and now am back to not remembering my dreams.
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