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Hi, all, first post.  Glad I found this forum.

Here's my history in brief:  Up until about a year and a half ago, my sleep apnea was a significant but not destabilizing issue.  I had a sleep study done a bit more than 2 years ago, with a reported AHI of 15.9.  After an initial period of experimentation with CPAP and an oral appliance, I decided that fixing my severe deviated septum would probably help me no matter which direction I ended up going in the future.

The surgery went well, but 3 weeks afterwards, I started having trouble breathing.  I had a number of tests (lung, heart, etc.), but they all came back fine.  My sleep got really, really bad, and my life started falling apart.  I was a walking zombie. 

I tried CPAP, the oral appliance, and CPAP with the oral appliance.  Nothing doing.  In 6 months, I never managed more than 2 hours of sleep with the CPAP.  I had a repeat sleep study, and now my AHI was 31.7.  I was in danger of losing my job and my family.  I had jaw surgery, and now my airway is huge (I am not overweight and don't have any fat in my throat).  But I still have about the same AHI.  After the surgery, I can now sleep 5-6 hours with CPAP, but I'm still waking up more than I'd like to go to the bathroom.

I'm a pretty industrious person, and I believe I've done everything I can to make CPAP work.  I've chased down mask leaks, taped and used a chin strap, and tried many different pressures.  Nothing works consistently.

As I was trying to chase down every possible cause of my problems, I went to see an ENT to see if I could have sinus problems.  I feel congested and fatigued, but I don't have what would be considered typical sinus issues.  She was skeptical but decided to do a CT scan just in case.  Lo and behold, I have a sinus infection.  I was on augmentin for 3 weeks and felt I had my life back.  It was the first time I'd been happy since these problems started.  Then I went off the antibiotics and my symptoms returned.  This repeated itself with another antibiotic.  I recently had another CT scan, and the sinus infection was still there.  I'm currently on my third round of antibiotics, together with Prednisone.

What I'm asking myself is: how much of my problems are due to sleep apnea, and how much to the sinus infection (which I might have picked up in the hospital)?  And is it normal to need such a long course of antibiotics?

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

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I was a teen when my insomnia went from bad to worse. I think the insomnia came from multiple traumas (a bombing, abuse, a mugging, being in a store with a masked gunman, etc). Afraid to sleep I think was my a big part of the problem. And yes, I believe UARS was definitely a concern for me, and the other half of the problem. In the sleep study I had 10 years ago, I had 9 UARS in the very short time I actually slept. And I was up sometimes 8 times a night. Now it is down to once (and I let my urologist know it was because of CPAP that it was down to once). So yes, I am sure it was UARS. And I did read Dr. Park's book, even went to see him. He suggested surgery for deviated septum and swollen turbinates. And even suggested getting the back of my tongue sliced off. That's when I got up and left. Too invasive for me.  And from what I know the turbinates grow back and you're back where you started. My daughter had that surgery years ago in high school, and that's what happened to her. So after seeing Dr. Park I went straight to the sleep doc and asked for a cpap. No surgery for me.

I went to a Dr. Gold in LI. He believes that because you stop breathing because of UARS/Sleep Apnea, you then become afraid to sleep and you keep waking yourself up (insomnia) because you feel every time you don't breathe that you are going to die. Don't know if he was right, but it made sense to me. And so I kept working at making the cpap work. and now a year later I am sleeping. I have also been doing emotional  work as well in regard the traumas. So maybe after all, Dr. Gold was right. Or maybe it was the placebo effect. Either way I am taking it!

Thomas Edison said:

Interesting.  This seems to be a biofeedback device; not sure how it differs from other ones.  I've heard that such devices can be helpful in relaxing the sympathetic nervous system, which would obviously be helpful for people with insomnia. 

Mary, I can't tell exactly how old you were 44 years ago, but you must have been quite young.  I wouldn't be surprised if you've had UARS the whole time, and that it later changed into sleep apnea.  (See Dr. Steven Park's book for details.)  I spent decades telling doctors that I had to wake up twice in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, that I couldn't sleep without socks on, etc.  I even went to see a urologist, and it never occurred to him that sleep apnea could be causing my problems.  I had a sleep study 10 years ago that came back negative.  Now I'm 45 years old and while I haven't gained weight, stress or age or whatever has changed my UARS to sleep apnea.  I wouldn't really say I have insomnia myself; it's just that poor breathing wakes me up and I haven't resolved the interplay between my sinus infection and CPAP.


Chris H said:

Hi Mary and Thomas, Their was a segment on one of the Doctor tv programs about using sound to stimulate the brain in a positive direction. It was called the Baud Bio Acoustical utilization Device .The Doctor Frank Lawless Phd ABPP suggested it had many applications . It would be interesting to see if it works for insomnia also. Good Sleep,Chris  

Wow.  You've really had it rough.  Turbinate surgery can sometimes be done using radiofrequency, which isn't such a big deal, but to each his or her own.

You might be interested in Barry Krakow's book about sleep (don't remember the name).  He's worked with PTSD patients and sleep apnea patients and seems to believe that PTSD can lead to sleep apnea.

Mary Callahan said:

I was a teen when my insomnia went from bad to worse. I think the insomnia came from multiple traumas (a bombing, abuse, a mugging, being in a store with a masked gunman, etc). Afraid to sleep I think was my a big part of the problem. And yes, I believe UARS was definitely a concern for me, and the other half of the problem. In the sleep study I had 10 years ago, I had 9 UARS in the very short time I actually slept. And I was up sometimes 8 times a night. Now it is down to once (and I let my urologist know it was because of CPAP that it was down to once). So yes, I am sure it was UARS. And I did read Dr. Park's book, even went to see him. He suggested surgery for deviated septum and swollen turbinates. And even suggested getting the back of my tongue sliced off. That's when I got up and left. Too invasive for me.  And from what I know the turbinates grow back and you're back where you started. My daughter had that surgery years ago in high school, and that's what happened to her. So after seeing Dr. Park I went straight to the sleep doc and asked for a cpap. No surgery for me.

I went to a Dr. Gold in LI. He believes that because you stop breathing because of UARS/Sleep Apnea, you then become afraid to sleep and you keep waking yourself up (insomnia) because you feel every time you don't breathe that you are going to die. Don't know if he was right, but it made sense to me. And so I kept working at making the cpap work. and now a year later I am sleeping. I have also been doing emotional  work as well in regard the traumas. So maybe after all, Dr. Gold was right. Or maybe it was the placebo effect. Either way I am taking it!


I will look into Barry Krakow's book once the holidays are past. Thanks!

Hope you can straighten out your sinus concerns and get the sleep we all want! Could really be allergies to who knows what, there are so many we don't even know about.

You may want to check out an allergy treatment called Advanced Allergy Therapeutics. Similar to NAET, but way faster and cheaper. I had gone to a naturopathic doctor in CT and now go to a chiropractor in LI who practices it, and it really made a difference in how I feel. Maybe even partly why I sleep better? There are practitioners all over listed on their website if you are interested. Usually out of pocket though since it is considered alternative. But worth its weight in gold as far as I am concerned. 

Sure beats long term treatment with antibiotics. 

Thomas Edison said:

Wow.  You've really had it rough.  Turbinate surgery can sometimes be done using radiofrequency, which isn't such a big deal, but to each his or her own.

You might be interested in Barry Krakow's book about sleep (don't remember the name).  He's worked with PTSD patients and sleep apnea patients and seems to believe that PTSD can lead to sleep apnea.

Mary Callahan said:

I was a teen when my insomnia went from bad to worse. I think the insomnia came from multiple traumas (a bombing, abuse, a mugging, being in a store with a masked gunman, etc). Afraid to sleep I think was my a big part of the problem. And yes, I believe UARS was definitely a concern for me, and the other half of the problem. In the sleep study I had 10 years ago, I had 9 UARS in the very short time I actually slept. And I was up sometimes 8 times a night. Now it is down to once (and I let my urologist know it was because of CPAP that it was down to once). So yes, I am sure it was UARS. And I did read Dr. Park's book, even went to see him. He suggested surgery for deviated septum and swollen turbinates. And even suggested getting the back of my tongue sliced off. That's when I got up and left. Too invasive for me.  And from what I know the turbinates grow back and you're back where you started. My daughter had that surgery years ago in high school, and that's what happened to her. So after seeing Dr. Park I went straight to the sleep doc and asked for a cpap. No surgery for me.

I went to a Dr. Gold in LI. He believes that because you stop breathing because of UARS/Sleep Apnea, you then become afraid to sleep and you keep waking yourself up (insomnia) because you feel every time you don't breathe that you are going to die. Don't know if he was right, but it made sense to me. And so I kept working at making the cpap work. and now a year later I am sleeping. I have also been doing emotional  work as well in regard the traumas. So maybe after all, Dr. Gold was right. Or maybe it was the placebo effect. Either way I am taking it!


Thanks for the suggestion, Mary.  I don't have a history of allergies or sinusitis, but it wouldn't hurt to look into Advanced Allergy Therapeutics.  The thing is, I have two positive CT scans, which would seem to indicate a bacterial sinus infection.  I have an appointment next month with a sinus specialist; I'll know more then.
Mary Callahan said:

I will look into Barry Krakow's book once the holidays are past. Thanks!

Hope you can straighten out your sinus concerns and get the sleep we all want! Could really be allergies to who knows what, there are so many we don't even know about.

You may want to check out an allergy treatment called Advanced Allergy Therapeutics. Similar to NAET, but way faster and cheaper. I had gone to a naturopathic doctor in CT and now go to a chiropractor in LI who practices it, and it really made a difference in how I feel. Maybe even partly why I sleep better? There are practitioners all over listed on their website if you are interested. Usually out of pocket though since it is considered alternative. But worth its weight in gold as far as I am concerned. 

Sure beats long term treatment with antibiotics. 

Sometimes we aren't even aware of what is causing our problems, could be something the body is not happy with, call it allergy or whatever. You just don't know. And it isn't invasive and it doesn't entail any medications. That's what I liked about it. Just the body healing the body.

Thomas Edison said:

Thanks for the suggestion, Mary.  I don't have a history of allergies or sinusitis, but it wouldn't hurt to look into Advanced Allergy Therapeutics.  The thing is, I have two positive CT scans, which would seem to indicate a bacterial sinus infection.  I have an appointment next month with a sinus specialist; I'll know more then.
Mary Callahan said:

I will look into Barry Krakow's book once the holidays are past. Thanks!

Hope you can straighten out your sinus concerns and get the sleep we all want! Could really be allergies to who knows what, there are so many we don't even know about.

You may want to check out an allergy treatment called Advanced Allergy Therapeutics. Similar to NAET, but way faster and cheaper. I had gone to a naturopathic doctor in CT and now go to a chiropractor in LI who practices it, and it really made a difference in how I feel. Maybe even partly why I sleep better? There are practitioners all over listed on their website if you are interested. Usually out of pocket though since it is considered alternative. But worth its weight in gold as far as I am concerned. 

Sure beats long term treatment with antibiotics. 

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