"please keep me updated about oximeters "
Sleep Apnea Forum Bringing Power to the Patient
New? Free Sign Up
Then check our Welcome Center to a Community Caring about Sleep Apnea diagnosis and Sleep Apnea treatment:
CPAP machines, Sleep Apnea surgery and dental appliances.
CPAP Supplies
Latest Activity
Ideal Patient Advocacy /Lobbying Group
I know we have the American Sleep Apnea Association, and believe me, they have a hard job and have done a lot of good on behalf of Sleep Apnea patients. What I'd like to know is, irrespective of what the American Sleep Apnea Association is doing for patients, what should a patient advocacy/ lobbying group do on our behalf?
Views: 385
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Charles McDermott on
-
Rooster said:
Charles McDermott said, ..... the only way I know is to impose rules and regulations on them and that is what you call being regulated.
Wrong! Where government has placed the heavy hand of regulation we have one disaster after another over the last fifty years.
Do you know how many billions of dollars of fraud is visited upon Medicare/Medicaid each year? The Federal government can't keep people from stealing money from these programs. They sure as hell can't keep people from stealing money from us.
Well guess what Rooster, who is creating the fraud in Medicare? Doctors. Those guys who are trying to keep us well.
Like j n k said, it is all about money. By the way, regarding vets. I had a vet do procedures on my dog that were not necessary and also mis diagnosed a problem. Don't tell me how honorable vets are.
-
Permalink Reply by Banyon on
-
Charles, You seem to be of the mindset that if we had more regulations and a bigger government to enforce them everything would be fine. Have a look at this:
According to the Office of the Federal Register, in 1998, the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), the official listing of all regulations in effect, contained a total of 134,723 pages in 201 volumes that claimed 19 feet of shelf space. In 1970, the CFR totaled only 54,834 pages.
The General Accountability Office (GAO) reports that in the four fiscal years from 1996 to 1999, a total of 15,286 new federal regulations went into effect. Of these, 222 were classified as "major" rules, each one having an annual effect on the economy of at least $100 million.
While they call the process "rulemaking," the regulatory agencies create and enforce "rules" that are truly laws, many with the potential to profoundly effect the lives and livelihoods of millions of Americans.
135,000 pages of regulations! 15,000 new regulations enacted in four years from 1996 to 1999! And none of these were needed to stop Medicare fraud! Fraud has been illegal for centuries!
As far as your claim that the "doctors who are trying to keep us well" are committing Medicare fraud, this is just not true. The ones committing great fraud are not the kinds of doctors you and I would use - at least not more than once. Do a little bit of reading and you will see there are a small number of institutional facilities such as nursing homes, residential facilities, hospitals and hospices, and doctors billing for physician visits and services. and total crooks billing for DME.
If you don't like to read, watch this 60 Minutes video on how easy it is to get $20 million out of Medicare without being a doctor, without performing any services, without having any patients, and without delivering any product - http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5414400n&tag=mncol;lst;2
You think more regulation, regulation, regulation, is going to improve that situation??? It will only make it worse as the Feds get tripped over the mass of regulations they created when the one regulation they needed, a law against fraud, was already on the book for centuries.
One veterinary misdiagnosis proves nothing and I am sure there are thousands every year. BTW, do you think a law making misdiagnosis (of humans) a criminal offense will improve things? Tell me you know better than that!
-
-
Now that I have the attention of you and others let me say this. If I meandered in my post that made it seem that I was for FEDERAL regulation I am sorry.
What kind of regulation I am referring to is that if regulating the whole (sleep industry) if you will. Who does it is beyond me and how it is to be is also beyond me. I am too old to get into that. But I will tell you that thank goodness I have the capacity to think for myself (at least right now) and look at my CPAP results every day to make sure there is some consistency. An idea that I got from the forums on the internet and NOT from doctors. Isn't that a shame when you pay thousands of dollars for a sleep study.
A CPAP machine blows air up our nose. Let's hope that less regulation on the industry doesn't start blowing air up the wrong hole.
Banyon said:Charles, You seem to be of the mindset that if we had more regulations and a bigger government to enforce them everything would be fine. Have a look at this:
According to the Office of the Federal Register, in 1998, the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), the official listing of all regulations in effect, contained a total of 134,723 pages in 201 volumes that claimed 19 feet of shelf space. In 1970, the CFR totaled only 54,834 pages.
The General Accountability Office (GAO) reports that in the four fiscal years from 1996 to 1999, a total of 15,286 new federal regulations went into effect. Of these, 222 were classified as "major" rules, each one having an annual effect on the economy of at least $100 million.
While they call the process "rulemaking," the regulatory agencies create and enforce "rules" that are truly laws, many with the potential to profoundly effect the lives and livelihoods of millions of Americans.
135,000 pages of regulations! 15,000 new regulations enacted in four years from 1996 to 1999! And none of these were needed to stop Medicare fraud! Fraud has been illegal for centuries!
As far as your claim that the "doctors who are trying to keep us well" are committing Medicare fraud, this is just not true. The ones committing great fraud are not the kinds of doctors you and I would use - at least not more than once. Do a little bit of reading and you will see there are a small number of institutional facilities such as nursing homes, residential facilities, hospitals and hospices, and doctors billing for physician visits and services. and total crooks billing for DME.
If you don't like to read, watch this 60 Minutes video on how easy it is to get $20 million out of Medicare without being a doctor, without performing any services, without having any patients, and without delivering any product - http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5414400n&tag=mncol;lst;2
You think more regulation, regulation, regulation, is going to improve that situation??? It will only make it worse as the Feds get tripped over the mass of regulations they created when the one regulation they needed, a law against fraud, was already on the book for centuries.
One veterinary misdiagnosis proves nothing and I am sure there are thousands every year. BTW, do you think a law making misdiagnosis (of humans) a criminal offense will improve things? Tell me you know better than that!
-
Permalink Reply by Rooster on
-
Reply by Charles McDermott
Now that I have the attention of you and others let me say this. If I meandered in my post that made it seem that I was for FEDERAL regulation I am sorry.
What kind of regulation I am referring to is that if regulating the whole (sleep industry) if you will. Who does it is beyond me and how it is to be is also beyond me. I am too old to get into that. But I will tell you that thank goodness I have the capacity to think for myself (at least right now) and look at my CPAP results every day to make sure there is some consistency. An idea that I got from the forums on the internet and NOT from doctors. Isn't that a shame when you pay thousands of dollars for a sleep study.
A CPAP machine blows air up our nose. Let's hope that less regulation on the industry doesn't start blowing air up the wrong hole.
Charles, I am glad you meandered into the thread and I don't buy that you are "too old" as long as you are still breathing.
Now you say, " ...made it seem that I was for FEDERAL regulation .... What kind of regulation I am referring to is that if regulating the whole (sleep industry) if you will."
If you are going to regulate the entire sleep industry, then you are talking about Federal regulation because the States cannot regulate interstate commerce. But the entire sleep industry, including doctors, all other medical professionals, equipment manufacturers, and DMEs is already very heavily regulated and licensed by federal and state laws - thousands and thousands of pages of regulations.
These are regulations that are stifling competition, driving up costs and driving down quality and innovation, and severely interfering with the individual relationships with patients and their doctors, other medical professionals, and equipment suppliers.
If you want to understand where I am coming from, I always recommend a little, easy to read book. This is a classic by Milton and Rose Friedman entitled Free to Choose: A Personal Statement. Most libraries keep several copies of it and it is available cheap in paperback, http://www.amazon.com/Free-Choose-Statement-Milton-Friedman/dp/0156...
You don't need to read much more than this simple little paperback to understand why this world works so much better when individuals are left free to make voluntary exchanges with other free individuals and to understand why society and prosperity suffer when governments get involved in deciding things through regulation.
We need a small, limited government to provide defense and protect our God-given rights from fraud, coercion, and misrepresentation. But central authorities meddling in our lives, our daily affairs, and our voluntary transaction with others restricts our freedom and our economic and social progress.
Try reading the Friedmans' little book.
-
-
OMG.. lol I took my little kitten to be " fixed" when it was 6 mo old..and the vet cut it like a female before realizing after the incision that is was a male kitten..and my poor baby had to go back in two weeks to get stitches out.. very very scary.. IF a vet cannot tell the diff' from a female and male kitten..
Charles McDermott said:
Rooster said:
Charles McDermott said, ..... the only way I know is to impose rules and regulations on them and that is what you call being regulated.
Wrong! Where government has placed the heavy hand of regulation we have one disaster after another over the last fifty years.
Do you know how many billions of dollars of fraud is visited upon Medicare/Medicaid each year? The Federal government can't keep people from stealing money from these programs. They sure as hell can't keep people from stealing money from us.
Well guess what Rooster, who is creating the fraud in Medicare? Doctors. Those guys who are trying to keep us well.
Like j n k said, it is all about money. By the way, regarding vets. I had a vet do procedures on my dog that were not necessary and also mis diagnosed a problem. Don't tell me how honorable vets are.
-
-
j n k said:Governments protect. They can protect the interests of consumers or the interests of businesses or both. If no one needed protecting, there would be no need for government. Big businesses easily bully consumers and bully other businesses. Some might view a democratic government as a collection of consumers who collectively bully the big-business bullies so the big-business bullies can't bully the individual consumers. Some might not see it that way.I doubt that will be settled in this thread.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in which industries are businesses able to "bully" consumers? Well of course it is in industries that are heavily regulated and have cronies in government who protect them and help keep competition out.
In unregulated industries if a business tries "bullying", the consumers just go down the street or get on the internet and happily buy from another supplier offering quality, service, courtesy, and good money-value.
I need the government to prosecute any business who commits fraud against me or coerces me.
I don't need the government to make the rules about how I will shop and how my suppliers will design, produce, sell, price, and guarantee products. Like most people I am perfectly capable and willing to negotiate on my own behalf. Don't need a nanny. Don't need a central elite-minded authority to make decisions for me.
But having help from members of lightly moderated forums is very nice. :)
-
-
reminds me of when Super Walmart came to our fair ' little " town.. We had a wonderful Brookshires Grocery Store..a quaint grocery called " Davids".and a VERY unique little shop called " Cheapo Depot". After Walmart moved in they were forced to close down. NOW... the only place to shop for things IS Walmart..and if you drive 20 miles to the next town..there are TWO more.. is this something like you are talking about or am I adding something absolutely useless as usual.. ( sigh..w/ slight grin)...
When a business has become a big enough bully to prevent other businesses from surviving, the consumer does not have the choice to go to another business. When a market becomes stable enough for collusion between businesses to take place, the consumer does not have the choice to stop the collusion among the powerful businesses. "Just go somewhere else" doesn't work then. There is no "somewhere else" because of the collusion.
j n k said:Money is power.
"Balance" of that power requires that the person with little money is protected from the business with much money.
-
Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
-
Rooster said:
"Get a strong association and the first thing that happens is some people will want to tell the patients how to do things, and drive up salaries and benefits of the association staff and their cronies in the sleep business."
Wouldn't this type of group be considered more of an industry advocacy?
My point on enforcing the rules was not to add any more regulations to the industry. I would like to see a group that enforces the rules as they apply to dealing with people. Not very many labs do physician consults even though they are required by the AASM. There are many rules such as this that are not being enforced.
@Rosster:" Open your eyes to what is going on around you. The CPAP patient is suffering today because of all the heavy regulation in the industry by the FDA."
Not all CPAP users are suffering. I see more people who are happy if not content with their therapy then those that aren't. Sleepguide and CPAPtalk represent a very small % of PAP users. Most of these people are there bevcause they had problems. We don't here from the ones that are happy.
@jnk "Self-titration over time is not rocket science; though naturally, some mentally impaired people would need assistance, just as with any other medical condition. It has been proved scientifically patients can titrate well without even having the numbers, if properly trained:"
We have some members here on SG whom have had numerous problems with auto-titration. Would you consider them mentally impaired? What about the many people in countries with social medicine with the same auto-titration problems? that's quite a bit of mentally impaired people jnk. Self titration may not be rocket science but it isn't the easiest road to travel.
I will post more later as I read more of this lengthy post.
-
-
Reply by Rock Hinkle
Not all CPAP users are suffering. I see more people who are happy if not content with their therapy then those that aren't. Sleepguide and CPAPtalk represent a very small % of PAP users. Most of these people are there bevcause they had problems. We don't here from the ones that are happy.
You are wearing rose-colored glasses. There are more CPAP machines sitting in closets than being used. Not to mention legions of sufferers who won't go near a sleep doc because they perceive CPAP as some kind of torture device.
-
-
This is your opinion. From where you are sitting I would probably think the same thing. I stand by what I said. You and the insurance man have your opinions and I have mine.
Banyon said:Reply by Rock Hinkle
Not all CPAP users are suffering. I see more people who are happy if not content with their therapy then those that aren't. Sleepguide and CPAPtalk represent a very small % of PAP users. Most of these people are there bevcause they had problems. We don't here from the ones that are happy.
You are wearing rose-colored glasses. There are more CPAP machines sitting in closets than being used. Not to mention legions of sufferers who won't go near a sleep doc because they perceive CPAP as some kind of torture device.
-
-
Fine line jnk! ;)
j n k said:No one has a problem figuring out auto-titration, since it happens automatically, by definition. It is called "using an APAP." :-)
But if a person feels bad on an APAP set wide open (which no one would know but the patient) and decides to try narrowing the range or trying straight pressure instead, that conclusion and decision would be considered a form of self-titration. The rules of self-titration require two things: (1) being able to count and (2) knowing how you feel.
Anyone who cannot count and cannot judge how he or she feels, I would consider mentally impaired, according to my personal definition.
But hey, that's just me.
Rock Hinkle said:
We have some members here on SG whom have had numerous problems with auto-titration. Would you consider them mentally impaired? What about the many people in countries with social medicine with the same auto-titration problems? that's quite a bit of mentally impaired people jnk. Self titration may not be rocket science but it isn't the easiest road to travel.
-
-
Then why do we still see so many in the lab based on problems with these machines?
j n k said:No one has a problem figuring out auto-titration, since it happens automatically, by definition. It is called "using an APAP." :-)
But if a person feels bad on an APAP set wide open (which no one would know but the patient) and decides to try narrowing the range or trying straight pressure instead, that conclusion and decision would be considered a form of self-titration. The rules of self-titration require two things: (1) being able to count and (2) knowing how you feel.
Anyone who cannot count and cannot judge how he or she feels, I would consider mentally impaired, according to my personal definition.
But hey, that's just me.
Rock Hinkle said:
We have some members here on SG whom have had numerous problems with auto-titration. Would you consider them mentally impaired? What about the many people in countries with social medicine with the same auto-titration problems? that's quite a bit of mentally impaired people jnk. Self titration may not be rocket science but it isn't the easiest road to travel.
© 2024 Created by The SleepGuide Crew.
Powered by
