Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carl on March 10, 2010 at 9:22am

Carol,

Don't forget to inquire about the reservoir. It's a fairly small plastic unit that attaches and hangs right in the middle of your chest. If I had to guess, I'd say it's about 3" around by 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. This allows the flow rate to be cut to somewhere between 1/2 and 1/4 of what it was originally, so the O2 will last longer. This can greatly extend the portable units useful life.

Don't forget that all this plastic tubing has to be replaced periodically as well (including the plastic reservoir)!!!

BTW, my sister's name was Carol.

Carl


Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Carl,
I know that there is a setting that you can operate the Helios on that only gives you O2 when you inhale and stops when you exhale but I thought that in order to use it with my Bi-pap it would have to be in the "continuous flow" mode. I don't know enough about that right now so I am not sure that is true.
Is your mother-in-law using a C-pap or Bi-pap with her O2?
If so, can her Bi-pap operate properly with the Helios in the "exhale cut-off " mode?

Thanks for responding Carl, I appreciate it, Carol

Carl said:

My mother-in-law is using Helios (the liquid O2) 100% of the time - awake or asleep. She has two LARGE tanks. When one runs low, she switches to the other one and at some point they replace the empty one. She also has portable units that are filled from the large tank that she can carry with her. These last several hours (she always tanks some of the small O2 cylinders with her if she might be away too long) - we genearlly leave these in the car.

She was on 6 lpm, but recently got a new "reservoir" type unit (it has to be replaced periodically, but that's covered by her Medicare), she can turn down her flow to half of what it was - so she's running on 3 lpm now. You should look into that as well. Effectively, what that unit does is to cut down on the waste - you are able to breathe the O2 that is in the reservoir easily, and it refills during the non-inhalation phase - after all - continuous flow wastes a LOT of energy by generating excess O2 that is not inspired - it just floats off into the atmosphere. For more information, check out the following link.

http://ccn.aacnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/4/41

Carl

Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Judy,
I am working on that as well. I think so because you can set the liquid O2 on continuous flow but I am talking to their tech support person about that again tomorrow.
Thank you for bringing that up, it could have easily been missed and it is a very important point. It was far from being ignorant, contraire, it was right on!



Judy said:

Forgive my ignorance here but have you verified w/a DME provider that the liquid 02 tanks can be used w/an xPAP??

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Permalink Reply by Carl on March 10, 2010 at 7:02pm

Carol,

I've been trying to find out more information but haven't been able to get through to people. I think you are correct in that you would have to leave it in the "continuous" mode while using cpap/bipap. I also do NOT know if the reservoir would allow you to reduce the flow under these circumstances, in fact, I pretty sure that it would not provide the required outcome w/ cpap/bipap, but, you should ask anyway :^)

Something that has me concerned is that I don't think ANYONE who goes into one of these "sleep centers" ever comes out without a prescription for cpap (at a MINIMUM)... So, has anyone here ever heard of someone like this? Is CPAP being over-prescribed?

I have read a few articles that are interesting, however... A doctor did tests on some people using polysomnography more than once and found out that the two tests differed enough in several people that a different diagnosis/treatment would have been prescribed. They are coming out with new polysomnography devices that can be taken home, used while you're sleeping in your own surroundings - rather than the artificial "sleep lab" and do so for multiple nights. The Alice PDx (by Philips) is such a device. I think the cost of this is prohibitive for "normal" people - it's around 6k.

What I would like to find is a device that would measure both O2 Sat and breathing - and that's all. I can find a decent pulse oximeter for somewhere in the 175-300 range - one even has a "wireless" option!, but I also want to monitor the breathing to find how the apnea is doing. I guess I could infer episodes from low O2 sat results, but i would indeed like to see respirations and have the ability to do this on a semi-regular basis to see if different things work or don't (like trying different pillows, different mattresses/etc).

Has anyone ever done this? Any results??? I'd even be curious if there are any "sleep center technicians" on here to hear what they have to say (anonymously would be fine!!!).

Carl

Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Carl,
I know that there is a setting that you can operate the Helios on that only gives you O2 when you inhale and stops when you exhale but I thought that in order to use it with my Bi-pap it would have to be in the "continuous flow" mode. I don't know enough about that right now so I am not sure that is true.
Is your mother-in-law using a C-pap or Bi-pap with her O2?
If so, can her Bi-pap operate properly with the Helios in the "exhale cut-off " mode?

Thanks for responding Carl, I appreciate it, Carol

Carl said:

My mother-in-law is using Helios (the liquid O2) 100% of the time - awake or asleep. She has two LARGE tanks. When one runs low, she switches to the other one and at some point they replace the empty one. She also has portable units that are filled from the large tank that she can carry with her. These last several hours (she always tanks some of the small O2 cylinders with her if she might be away too long) - we genearlly leave these in the car.

She was on 6 lpm, but recently got a new "reservoir" type unit (it has to be replaced periodically, but that's covered by her Medicare), she can turn down her flow to half of what it was - so she's running on 3 lpm now. You should look into that as well. Effectively, what that unit does is to cut down on the waste - you are able to breathe the O2 that is in the reservoir easily, and it refills during the non-inhalation phase - after all - continuous flow wastes a LOT of energy by generating excess O2 that is not inspired - it just floats off into the atmosphere. For more information, check out the following link.

http://ccn.aacnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/4/41

Carl

Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Judy,
I am working on that as well. I think so because you can set the liquid O2 on continuous flow but I am talking to their tech support person about that again tomorrow.
Thank you for bringing that up, it could have easily been missed and it is a very important point. It was far from being ignorant, contraire, it was right on!



Judy said:

Forgive my ignorance here but have you verified w/a DME provider that the liquid 02 tanks can be used w/an xPAP??

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Carol Hansen-Dix on March 10, 2010 at 8:48pm

Carl,
What does that little reservoir do, exactly, to cut down on the O2 use so much?

In the late 40s and 50s Carol was a very popular name. Do you remember the song by Neil Sedaka "Oh Carol"?

Carol

Carl said:

Carol,

Don't forget to inquire about the reservoir. It's a fairly small plastic unit that attaches and hangs right in the middle of your chest. If I had to guess, I'd say it's about 3" around by 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. This allows the flow rate to be cut to somewhere between 1/2 and 1/4 of what it was originally, so the O2 will last longer. This can greatly extend the portable units useful life.

Don't forget that all this plastic tubing has to be replaced periodically as well (including the plastic reservoir)!!!

BTW, my sister's name was Carol.

Carl


Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Carl,
I know that there is a setting that you can operate the Helios on that only gives you O2 when you inhale and stops when you exhale but I thought that in order to use it with my Bi-pap it would have to be in the "continuous flow" mode. I don't know enough about that right now so I am not sure that is true.
Is your mother-in-law using a C-pap or Bi-pap with her O2?
If so, can her Bi-pap operate properly with the Helios in the "exhale cut-off " mode?

Thanks for responding Carl, I appreciate it, Carol

Carl said:

My mother-in-law is using Helios (the liquid O2) 100% of the time - awake or asleep. She has two LARGE tanks. When one runs low, she switches to the other one and at some point they replace the empty one. She also has portable units that are filled from the large tank that she can carry with her. These last several hours (she always tanks some of the small O2 cylinders with her if she might be away too long) - we genearlly leave these in the car.

She was on 6 lpm, but recently got a new "reservoir" type unit (it has to be replaced periodically, but that's covered by her Medicare), she can turn down her flow to half of what it was - so she's running on 3 lpm now. You should look into that as well. Effectively, what that unit does is to cut down on the waste - you are able to breathe the O2 that is in the reservoir easily, and it refills during the non-inhalation phase - after all - continuous flow wastes a LOT of energy by generating excess O2 that is not inspired - it just floats off into the atmosphere. For more information, check out the following link.

http://ccn.aacnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/4/41

Carl

Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Judy,
I am working on that as well. I think so because you can set the liquid O2 on continuous flow but I am talking to their tech support person about that again tomorrow.
Thank you for bringing that up, it could have easily been missed and it is a very important point. It was far from being ignorant, contraire, it was right on!



Judy said:

Forgive my ignorance here but have you verified w/a DME provider that the liquid 02 tanks can be used w/an xPAP??

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Carl on March 10, 2010 at 8:57pm

Carol,

On continuous flow, a lot is wasted. When you inhale there is a RUSH of air during the inhalation effort. That rush draws air in much faster than the nasal cannula can provide and so you inhale a lot of "normal" air in addition to some amount of oxygen being provided by the nasal cannula, plus perhaps a little near the nostrils. Having a little reservoir there allows the O2 to build up and, when you inhale, you are able to inhale more oxygen, thereby reducing the amount of "continuous flow" you need. It's actually quite a simple concept.

BTW, I find a device called the "Apnealink" by ResMed. It will do exactly what I want - record oximetry AND respiratory data. I called ResMed and they don't sell to "users", so I got the numbers of some local places, but, of course they were already closed when I called.

Here's a link to the page...
http://www.resmed.com/us/products/apnealink_plus/apnealink-plus.htm...

Sorry, I don't remember that song off the top of my head. My sister was born in '49, so that fits the time frame exactly.

Carl

Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Carl,
What does that little reservoir do, exactly, to cut down on the O2 use so much? In the late 40s and 50s Carol was a very popular name. Do you remember the song by Neil Sedaka "Oh Carol"?

Carol

Carl said:

Carol,

Don't forget to inquire about the reservoir. It's a fairly small plastic unit that attaches and hangs right in the middle of your chest. If I had to guess, I'd say it's about 3" around by 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. This allows the flow rate to be cut to somewhere between 1/2 and 1/4 of what it was originally, so the O2 will last longer. This can greatly extend the portable units useful life.

Don't forget that all this plastic tubing has to be replaced periodically as well (including the plastic reservoir)!!!

BTW, my sister's name was Carol.

Carl


Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Carl,
I know that there is a setting that you can operate the Helios on that only gives you O2 when you inhale and stops when you exhale but I thought that in order to use it with my Bi-pap it would have to be in the "continuous flow" mode. I don't know enough about that right now so I am not sure that is true.
Is your mother-in-law using a C-pap or Bi-pap with her O2?
If so, can her Bi-pap operate properly with the Helios in the "exhale cut-off " mode?

Thanks for responding Carl, I appreciate it, Carol

Carl said:

My mother-in-law is using Helios (the liquid O2) 100% of the time - awake or asleep. She has two LARGE tanks. When one runs low, she switches to the other one and at some point they replace the empty one. She also has portable units that are filled from the large tank that she can carry with her. These last several hours (she always tanks some of the small O2 cylinders with her if she might be away too long) - we genearlly leave these in the car.

She was on 6 lpm, but recently got a new "reservoir" type unit (it has to be replaced periodically, but that's covered by her Medicare), she can turn down her flow to half of what it was - so she's running on 3 lpm now. You should look into that as well. Effectively, what that unit does is to cut down on the waste - you are able to breathe the O2 that is in the reservoir easily, and it refills during the non-inhalation phase - after all - continuous flow wastes a LOT of energy by generating excess O2 that is not inspired - it just floats off into the atmosphere. For more information, check out the following link.

http://ccn.aacnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/4/41

Carl

Carol Hansen-Dix said:

Judy,
I am working on that as well. I think so because you can set the liquid O2 on continuous flow but I am talking to their tech support person about that again tomorrow.
Thank you for bringing that up, it could have easily been missed and it is a very important point. It was far from being ignorant, contraire, it was right on!



Judy said:

Forgive my ignorance here but have you verified w/a DME provider that the liquid 02 tanks can be used w/an xPAP??

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Judy on March 10, 2010 at 9:05pm

Carol, have you asked the RRT and your local DME provider's about whether the liquid 02 can be used w/a CPAP or w/a BPAP/VPAP??

Maybe contact an RRT in the respiratory department of your local hospital to ask them?

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