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Permalink Reply by Carolyn on February 23, 2010 at 10:54pm

sleepycarol said:

I know you use the chin-ups. Have you thought about not using them for a couple of nights to see if there is any difference? I tend to grind / clench my teeth when stressed and have to consciously relax the jaw. This leads to discomfort, jaw popping, etc. So I know what you are experiencing even if the cause isn't exactly the same. I have tried not to clench my teeth when stressed and don't do it nearly as much as I used to.

Carol,
I was thinking the exact same thing. I have really become very dependent on them to keep my mouth shut. Maybe I will try the chin strap tonight. Although after much research I have found that they can also misalign the jaw. I really don't want to go to a FF mask. I love my nasal pillow mask.

I am thinking that the chin-ups are placing stress on the jaw bone and causing the problem possibly. It maybe holding the jaw slightly in an unnatural position.

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Permalink Reply by sleepycarol on February 24, 2010 at 8:12am

Here is something you could try.

Many use the Polident strips (Sea Bond also has them) to seal their lips. Cut the strips so that they fit your lips,lick your lips and apply the strip(s) and press lips together. You can easily open your mouth if needed and if you need to reseal lick your lips and press together. This wouldn't put undue pressure on your jaw I wouldn't think. It would allow you to see if the chin up strips are adding to your problem. Might be worth a try.

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Permalink Reply by Carolyn on February 24, 2010 at 8:59am

sleepycarol said:

Here is something you could try.

Many use the Polident strips (Sea Bond also has them) to seal their lips. Cut the strips so that they fit your lips,lick your lips and apply the strip(s) and press lips together. You can easily open your mouth if needed and if you need to reseal lick
your lips and press together. This wouldn't put undue pressure on your jaw I wouldn't think. It would allow you to see if the chin up strips are adding to your problem. Might be worth a try.

I have actually tried this in the very beginning-worked OK. Thanks for the suggestion and concern.

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Permalink Reply by Henning on February 24, 2010 at 4:18pm

I am afraid that your problem is more complex. You are not accustomed to sleep with your mouth completely closed. This may give some bite problems and if it's not resolved quickly, it can develop into serious problems such as TMJ.

In my own case, it was the opposite. When I started my CPAP treatment, I began unconsciously to bite my teeth together (probably to avoid leaks). After some time (weeks) I had TMJ problems.

This is a serious problem that may cause much pain, and take a long time to get over.

So it is really a vicious circle.

But there is an easy solution.

Today you can have a new innovative kind of devices to use only on your incisors (an nti device), and you can’t even feel that you have it on.

And how does it work. Try to bite down on a wooden pencil with your back teeth as hard as you can. You’ll feel the muscle bulge as it intensely contracts. Now compare to when biting on the pencil with your front teeth only. That’s how it works.

Here is a link to the manufacturer:

http://www.nti-tss.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&a...

You need to find a dentist to make this device special for you, but in fact it is much cheaper than a traditional mouth guard.

Henning

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Permalink Reply by Carolyn on February 24, 2010 at 4:39pm

Henning said:

I am afraid that your problem is more complex. You are not accustomed to sleep with your mouth completely closed. This may give some bite problems and if it's not resolved quickly, it can develop into serious problems such as TMJ.

In my own case, it was the opposite. When I started my CPAP treatment, I began unconsciously to bite my teeth together (probably to avoid leaks). After some time (weeks) I had TMJ problems.

This is a serious problem that may cause much pain, and take a long time to get over.

So it is really a vicious circle.

But there is an easy solution.

Today you can have a new innovative kind of devices to use only on your incisors (an nti device), and you can’t even feel that you have it on.

And how does it work. Try to bite down on a wooden pencil with your back teeth as hard as you can. You’ll feel the muscle bulge as it intensely contracts. Now compare to when biting on the pencil with your front teeth only. That’s how it works.

Here is a link to the manufacturer:

http://www.nti-tss.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&a...

You need to find a dentist to make this device special for you, but in fact it is much cheaper than a traditional mouth guard.

Henning

Henning,
The weird thing is I don't have headaches, I'm not under any stress and my family dentist doesn't see any signs of bruxism. Do you have one of these devices? Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Henning on February 24, 2010 at 4:54pm

I use this device every night. (Although I for the moment don’t have Sleep Apnea)

TMJ problems don't start with headache, but with pain in the jaw. Later it develops to pain in the temple and later it can cause migraine symptoms.

It is only a very few dentists who are aware of these problems.

Henning

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Permalink Reply by Carolyn on February 24, 2010 at 4:55pm

Henning said:

I use this device every night. (Although I for the moment don’t have Sleep Apnea)

TMJ problems don't start with headache, but with pain in the jaw. Later it develops to pain in the temple and later it can cause migraine symptoms.

It is only a very few dentists who are aware of these problems.

Henning

How much do these normally cost?

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Permalink Reply by Henning on February 24, 2010 at 5:06pm

I have neither any signs of bruxism.

I don’t know what it costs in the U.S. but here in Denmark it costs approx. $200 (It takes only 20 minutes for a dentist to adapt such a device). I will believe it is cheaper in the U.S.

Henning


Carolyn said:

Henning said:

I use this device every night. (Although I for the moment don’t have Sleep Apnea)

TMJ problems don't start with headache, but with pain in the jaw. Later it develops to pain in the temple and later it can cause migraine symptoms.

It is only a very few dentists who are aware of these problems.

Henning

How much do these normally cost?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by RL on February 24, 2010 at 7:05pm

Thanks Henning,
I am definitely going to on check this product with my dentist. It looks like it might be a good idea for me. I forgot that dental technology has evolved just like everything else. I would rather prevent serious problems if I can. It looks like this might be helpful.

RL

Henning said:

I am afraid that your problem is more complex. You are not accustomed to sleep with your mouth completely closed. This may give some bite problems and if it's not resolved quickly, it can develop into serious problems such as TMJ.

In my own case, it was the opposite. When I started my CPAP treatment, I began unconsciously to bite my teeth together (probably to avoid leaks). After some time (weeks) I had TMJ problems.

This is a serious problem that may cause much pain, and take a long time to get over.

So it is really a vicious circle.

But there is an easy solution.

Today you can have a new innovative kind of devices to use only on your incisors (an nti device), and you can’t even feel that you have it on.

And how does it work. Try to bite down on a wooden pencil with your back teeth as hard as you can. You’ll feel the muscle bulge as it intensely contracts. Now compare to when biting on the pencil with your front teeth only. That’s how it works.

Here is a link to the manufacturer:

http://www.nti-tss.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&a...

You need to find a dentist to make this device special for you, but in fact it is much cheaper than a traditional mouth guard.

Henning

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Verne Herz on March 25, 2010 at 1:19pm

I've been using CPAP for 2 years now. At about 6 months I started noticing that the air pressure was forcing my jaw forward. By morning my lower front teeth were touching my upper front teeth, but they fairly quickly corrected by breakfast time. Over time I have had to hold pressure on my jaw and work my jaw back to where it should be. As of this last weekend the situation has changed for the worse. After 8-9 hours of being held forward, my jaw has decided that's the place it is supposed to be. Yesterday, it was noon before I could get my molars to touch, and even after I finally got them to touch, my jaw kept trying to go back to it's new improper position. While I hold pressure on my jaw persuading it back, I also open and close my mouth, and find that I have some left jaw joint pain in doing this. There is no crunching involved, so I suspect that my situation isn't the same as yours, Carolyn, but I wonder if the air pressure which is designed to force the tongue forward isn't also causing your jaw forward too and causing some of this pain that you describe. I took an 8 inch wide, velcro ended, ace bandage last evening, and cut it to a length that would wrap around my chin and the back top of my head. I trimmed off the bandage that bunched up in front of my mouth, etc, tensioned to comfortably counteract the constant forward air pressure fo the CPAP, and wore this last night under my CPAP Swift II Nasal Pillow Hose Head setup. I woke up this morning with my jaw where it is supposed to be. Halleluja! I've not heard of chin- ups, but I will look into them and attempt to design, if I can't find, an even better device to eleviate my jaw problem which hit critical mass yesterday. [grin]

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