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Permalink Reply by Noah Calderon on August 9, 2011 at 8:33pm

I just changed masks and increased my pressure, and now I am getting bloating and gas also.  It is pretty awful.  I just let it all fly in the morning.  My girl friend just loves it--let's see how much longer she will be around.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Callahan on August 9, 2011 at 8:36pm

For that reason alone, I am glad I live alone. It would be awful to have to deal with this while living with someone. Don't know how so many do it without just chucking the whole damn thing.

Noah Calderon said:

I just changed masks and increased my pressure, and now I am getting bloating and gas also.  It is pretty awful.  I just let it all fly in the morning.  My girl friend just loves it--let's see how much longer she will be around.

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Permalink Reply by MZH on August 10, 2011 at 10:05am

I don't know if this will address your positional bloating but I sleep in both positions too. When I switched to an autotitrating BiPAP from CPAP the lower exhalation pressure stopped 98% of my aerophagia. You may well benefit from lots of exhalation pressure relief. I usually need 4 to 6 points lower exhale pressure than inhale. And my inhalation pressures are usually only between 12 and 15! BiPAP saved me, really.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Callahan on August 10, 2011 at 10:42am

Thank you, Marcia. I have an apap machine, and my exhalation is set at 3 below. I will see if I can lower it some more to see if that makes a difference. 

Marcia Herman said:

I don't know if this will address your positional bloating but I sleep in both positions too. When I switched to an autotitrating BiPAP from CPAP the lower exhalation pressure stopped 98% of my aerophagia. You may well benefit from lots of exhalation pressure relief. I usually need 4 to 6 points lower exhale pressure than inhale. And my inhalation pressures are usually only between 12 and 15! BiPAP saved me, really.

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Permalink Reply by Philip Brown on August 10, 2011 at 3:49pm

Hi Mary, 

 

You are not alone.

I am giving xPAP therapy a try for the THIRD time.  First time was about 5 years ago, and it was aweful....  I had a bipap, but I gave up due to bloating, gas and sore chest muscles.

 

Second time was 18 months ago with an Autopap.   The machine was much easier to breath against, but the bloating was still a big (and painful) issue.  I eventually gave up.

 

Now I'm trying again (with a new autopap).  So far the bloating is still an issue.  I was using a nasal mask.  I'm going to try with a full face mask next.  The mask I got really covers your whole face (eyes and all).   I have read that breathing through your mouth and/or leaking air through your mouth can cause you to swallow air... so I'll see if the different mask helps.  I also have read that a chin-strap can help... so I did some research on them on bought one that seems to be well liked (based on reviews on a different site).  If the full-face mask helps, then I'll try using the nasal mask w/ the chin strap  (making the assumption that the problem is mouth breathing or mouth air leakage).

 

I don't have an answer yet... and I haven't figured out if my sleeping position affects it.  I do have an adjustable bed (I bought it because of my apnea.... and because of acid reflux... which is being treated successfully treated by prilosec - under the care of a specialist), so I sleep w/ my head elevated to try to help.

I also got a dental appliance... which definitely cures my snoring, and seems to reduce my apnea, but not eliminate it.  There are many, many dental appliances on the market, and some work better than others for particular people.  Mine was expensive ($3K)... but I don't know how much was for the appliance itself, and how much was profit for the dentist (he is a good dentist, but I also know that he's expensive for everything he does).

 

Anyway, you may want to consider trying a dental appliance.  In general, I haven't seen too many people push for their use... but I have to say  that it has helped me somewhat.... and that I can tolerate it MUCH better than I have tolerated CPAP.  With my latest attempt at autopap, I plan to keep a log of all of the different variables (sleeping position, machine setting, inclined vs flat, mask, w/ dental appliance, without dental appliance, etc) and use the cpap's data recorder to monitor my results.  I also bought a data-recording oximeter ($99 dollars!), and will use that to check my oxygen levels throughout the night, since my sleep study had shown some pretty low levels.

 

Lastly, I plan to go back to my stomach doc  (OK... gastroenterologist  ) to have him check me for a hietal  hernia (sp?), and possibly to prescribe a very strong prescription acid reflux med (if he thinks it might help)... just in case the problem is related to acid reflux.   These last two problems were thanks to the messages on this thread.   Hang in there, Mary.  It can be hard (it's been hard for me)... but hopefully you will find what works.   I will carefully monitor this thread, both to see how you fair, and to continue to learn about the problem.   The sleep doc's that I had (I tried two different ones) were both useless in regards to the bloating and gas... but I guess I'll get over that.

 

I'm trying to throw everything I can think of at the problem and "see what sticks".  I'm hopeful that maybe using the dental appliance with autopap will work well...   At least I'll be able to get data (ie - events, pressure level, oxygen level, and degree of bloating) so that I will be able to tell what works best, and what's a waste of time.

 

Lastly... I guess it won't make you feel that much better, but you should know that the sleep apnea machines available today are SOOOO much better than the ones available 3 years ago (at least from my experience)... so maybe you'll find a solution and/or maybe the technology will continue to improve.

GOOD LUCK.

 

Sincerely,

         -Sleepy Phil

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Permalink Reply by MZH on August 10, 2011 at 4:13pm

To both Mary and Phil,

The aerophagia was the biggest problem to me. I'm not sure why the auto BiPAP pretty much took care of it for me b/c I had a terrible time with "chipmunk cheeks". I had to keep emptying the air from my mouth even before I fell asleep. The auto BiPAP gave me Centrals though. I'm still working on that; I know that can be an issue with BiPAP.

 

Phil, I have a small sliding hiatal hernia, so I think that contributes to the air problem in some people but when the air problem starts in the mouth, I'm not so sure about the hernia being at the root of the problem. My GI doc told me to take omeprazole for a long time. It felt OK for about 5-6 weeks but it messed up a bowel issue and I couldn't tolerate the diarrhea it eventually caused me.

 

Do you think the adjustable bed is helpful for your sleep? I know it's good for reflux but I wonder if it helps sleep apnea too.

 

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Permalink Reply by Philip Brown on August 10, 2011 at 6:39pm

Marcia,  

Thank you for the info...  if nothing else works... then maybe I will have to try an autotitrating BiPAP... but I think I'll rule out lots of other things before I go to that.

 

The adjustable bed definitely helps me with both the acid reflux and the apnea.  Although I still have sleep apnea problems when I sleep inclined, the apenea is far, far worse when I sleep flat.

If I incline the bed too much, it gets uncomfortable to sleep, because I tend to slide down in bed, and also because I feel like I have to balance myself to keep from falling over sideways in the bed.  

Elevating my feet some too (I know... it's a fancy...dancy bed!) seems to help with both.

Some nights I elevate it more than others.  Occasionally, (when I'm in the mood), I elevate it a lot, and sleep on my side with an arm hanging over the top of the elevated bed to keep me from falling over.   The biggest problem with elevating the bed, however, is that sometimes it is uncomfortable to sleep on my side... the angle and where you bend isn't exactly natural.

For the best inclined sleep, I often sleep sitting up in a over-sized chair, sleeping propped up in a corner of the couch, or sleeping on the floor leaning against a big pillow with built-in armrests.

Of course, I still prefer to be in the bed, when I can, because if I don't sleep there, the dog takes over my side of the bed, and I feel left out with my wife and dog sleeping in the bed while I'm on the floor!  (hehe).  Thanks again for the info/advice Marcia.  And Mary.... keep at it!

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Permalink Reply by MZH on August 10, 2011 at 7:47pm

Phil, thanks for the detailed description. I feel like I'm there with you; we have dogs and cats who'd love to take over the bed if we let them. LOL Well, you've inspired me to shop for an adjustable bed.

 

For a while we had the head of the bed jacked up and when I slept on my side it really bothered my lower back. At least with an adjustable bed one can change the angle if one feels like sleeping on the side a while. The bed is now flat again but I'm tempted to try a recliner to see what happens. I guess we need to find two long twins. My husband sleeps on his side all the time so a permanent adjustable bed would be awful for hm. I always wondered how to make up split adjustable beds. Hmm.

A fellow in the UK invented an "inclined bed". It's flat but raised at the head. It went against all logic but stopped GERD and even lower leg swelling. It's kinda like standing up, I guess. Talk about counter-intuitive! That wouldn't be for me.

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Permalink Reply by Philip Brown on August 10, 2011 at 8:18pm

Yeah... not to hijack the OP's thread... but I need to do one reply to this.   

I got a "split, california King size".    The split part, means that it's kinda like two twin beds... each with their own adjustment, so each can be adjusted separately.

 

"King" is pretty obvious... but the "California King"  actually means that it's a few inches narrower than a plain "king", and also a few inches longer than a plain "King"  (this size fit best in my space).  The bed was a custom order from a place that sells only via the web.  I love, love, love the bed... but the place that sells them is kind of slippery... so I won't endorse them here.

 

(Anyone... PM me if you want me to tell you where I got the bed.  But buyer be warned... while I love the product... I can't and won't vouch for their character or approach to sales -- in short, they promise that the bed is a miracle cure to all kinds of issues for people with serious medical problems... then, when people buy it with expectations that don't materialize... they don't wanna take any returns... despite what they promised or even despite their claims of a "free... 30 day in-home trial".  Once you get the bed... it's yours... no matter what they say!  They won't take it back... but they will try to accommodate you if you want some changes made... they just won't take it back or give your money back!)

Anyway... enough of the side-bar.   Picture this... you go into a store or call up a place and say "yeah... I want to get a set of sheets for a California King Sized bed... but I also need the bottom sheet to be split (kinda like two separate... odd-sized twin fitted sheets)."

Usually they don't even laugh at you.... instead they don't get what you're asking for, or they mistakenly tell you that they have it.  (Trust me... they don't... most places don't even know what a California King is or have one... much less a *split" California King... at least not on the EAST coast...  I have no idea about the west coast.).

So the sheets have to be custom made (===> Big dollars!).  But I found a great place that makes them, and you can order all kinds of goodies, like elastic straps across the corners to help keep the fitted sheets on, and "wings" on the sides to keep the bottom sheets tucked in when the bed is elevated, and you can get really-high thread counts - 1200 - (if you pay)... which end up giving you cotton sheets that are so soft they almost feel like silk!  All of this for only about $600 a set!!!! (I know... this sleep apnea thing gets mighty, mighty, expensive... but I'm a fairly young guy... so I figure I better spend what I can to protect my health.  After all, if I die young because I didn't do something about it... then it doesn't matter how much money I didn't spend, because I won't be here to enjoy it!!)  ;-)

'nough said.   Back to the original topic....    Mary has aerophagia, and is trying to figure out what to do about it... and it's especially vexing because she's fine when she sleeps on her back... it's only when she sleeps on her side that she has the problem.  (How's that, Mary?)

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Permalink Reply by MZH on August 10, 2011 at 8:45pm

I guess I hijacked the thread too when I asked about the bed in the aerophagia thread. To keep it on topic --  maybe sleeping with the head of the bed up might help get rid of the aerophagia. Wouldn't that be nice?  Oh wait. It's only when she's on her side that she has the problem. Mary, do you have that when sleeping on both sides? I know the GI people say to sleep on the left side if one has GERD so maybe left-sided sleeping  would help the air swallowing too? I dunno.

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Permalink Reply by Philip Brown on August 10, 2011 at 8:54pm

Jonathan Brumfield said:

Just searching the net for you and I found a few links that discuss it:

 

http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37517&sid=f42fd...

 

Wow!  I just read the link posed by Jonathan... and if anyone hasn't looked at it yet, make sure you read the fifth post down on that thread.   It's like an encyclopedia of knowledge and advice.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jonathan.  I've actually printed out a few hard copies of that post to make sure that I can always refer to it.

 

And Mary... I'm new to all of the lingo... but I just learned that "your term" is more correct.  Most of us probably get "gastric insuflation" (air *forced* into our stomach) when our PAPs cause bloating... which is more serious than just aerophagia  (swallowing air). 

Sorry for recapping your issue with the wrong term.  (I think I'll stick w/ bloating and gas as my preferred terms... it's simpler!)

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Permalink Reply by Mary Callahan on August 10, 2011 at 9:19pm

Yes, both sides and with the head of the bed elevated. But never on my back. And I have an APAP.

Marcia Herman said:

I guess I hijacked the thread too when I asked about the bed in the aerophagia thread. To keep it on topic --  maybe sleeping with the head of the bed up might help get rid of the aerophagia. Wouldn't that be nice?  Oh wait. It's only when she's on her side that she has the problem. Mary, do you have that when sleeping on both sides? I know the GI people say to sleep on the left side if one has GERD so maybe left-sided sleeping  would help the air swallowing too? I dunno.

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