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Permalink Reply by Mike on April 2, 2009 at 3:22am

this is a bit off-topic for this thread because it's not a mask-only solution, but if the notion is that the body sends a fight or flight panic response more with obstructive apneas than with central apneas, wouldn't the best way to distinguish central apneas from obstructive apneas be by measuring blood pressure or some measure of how hard the heart is working?

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Permalink Reply by Mike on April 2, 2009 at 3:26am

actually, this is easier, the link itself: http://www.respironics.com/UserGuides/BiPAP_ST_User_Manual.pdf

Mike said:

RichM, look for and click on the listing (last one under the letter "B" for BiPAP) for the Respironics BiPAP S/T user manual, and there you download the pdf manual for the Respironics BiPAP S/T. is that what you were looking for?

RichM said:

Thanks for those links, but I am still looking for the setup guide for the Respironics S/T This will show what the setting are for the ST and what they mean. I just don't like having a machine that I don't know what it is doing and why. And from my experience with both the tech that original set it up and the sleep center that did some of the resetting both did not really know what they were doing (there own words to me) and could not answer what the other setting on the machine were or how to set them if they were needed or not. It does not give me much comfort that I am getting the needed help from them. I had ask the sleep center to get what info they can from the Respironics Rep when he comes in, but I have not hear anything so far from that. So I had put the request out here for group to help me. Again thanks for the links you gave me but they do not answer my questions.

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Permalink Reply by Duane McDade on April 2, 2009 at 4:00am

Lets not start drawing blood from each other, yet. If ones has Obstructive apneas they in most cases don't have central apneas. These are seperate problems, and the last ASV's I was in contact with did not require being conected to a vein. Central apnea is very rare! If you have both, well I haven't seen that. I've seen obstructive with an occasional mixed apnea.

Mike said:

this is a bit off-topic for this thread because it's not a mask-only solution, but if the notion is that the body sends a fight or flight panic response more with obstructive apneas than with central apneas, wouldn't the best way to distinguish central apneas from obstructive apneas be by measuring blood pressure or some measure of how hard the heart is working?

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Permalink Reply by Duane McDade on April 2, 2009 at 5:22am

Oh 1 more point.....Sometimes a thing that looks like a central apnea will occur following a arousal. The machines or techs sometimes over score these events. But.......it does not mean one has complex sleep apnea.

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Permalink Reply by RichM on April 2, 2009 at 7:18pm

Mike no I need the one that the tech gets but does not give you. It has each of the settings and what they are and what each option is for each setting. Thanks I have the user guide and it is very high level (not much info).
Rich

Mike said:

actually, this is easier, the link itself: http://www.respironics.com/UserGuides/BiPAP_ST_User_Manual.pdf

Mike said:

RichM, look for and click on the listing (last one under the letter "B" for BiPAP) for the Respironics BiPAP S/T user manual, and there you download the pdf manual for the Respironics BiPAP S/T. is that what you were looking for?

RichM said:

Thanks for those links, but I am still looking for the setup guide for the Respironics S/T This will show what the setting are for the ST and what they mean. I just don't like having a machine that I don't know what it is doing and why. And from my experience with both the tech that original set it up and the sleep center that did some of the resetting both did not really know what they were doing (there own words to me) and could not answer what the other setting on the machine were or how to set them if they were needed or not. It does not give me much comfort that I am getting the needed help from them. I had ask the sleep center to get what info they can from the Respironics Rep when he comes in, but I have not hear anything so far from that. So I had put the request out here for group to help me. Again thanks for the links you gave me but they do not answer my questions.

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Permalink Reply by Duane McDade on April 3, 2009 at 7:12am

Rich, They are not allowed to tell you too much about the machine because some people/patients will change the settings. That would be like letting patients perscribe thier own medications. That's it in a nut shell.

RichM said:

Mike no I need the one that the tech gets but does not give you. It has each of the settings and what they are and what each option is for each setting. Thanks I have the user guide and it is very high level (not much info).
Rich

Mike said:

actually, this is easier, the link itself: http://www.respironics.com/UserGuides/BiPAP_ST_User_Manual.pdf

Mike said:

RichM, look for and click on the listing (last one under the letter "B" for BiPAP) for the Respironics BiPAP S/T user manual, and there you download the pdf manual for the Respironics BiPAP S/T. is that what you were looking for?

RichM said:

Thanks for those links, but I am still looking for the setup guide for the Respironics S/T This will show what the setting are for the ST and what they mean. I just don't like having a machine that I don't know what it is doing and why. And from my experience with both the tech that original set it up and the sleep center that did some of the resetting both did not really know what they were doing (there own words to me) and could not answer what the other setting on the machine were or how to set them if they were needed or not. It does not give me much comfort that I am getting the needed help from them. I had ask the sleep center to get what info they can from the Respironics Rep when he comes in, but I have not hear anything so far from that. So I had put the request out here for group to help me. Again thanks for the links you gave me but they do not answer my questions.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on April 3, 2009 at 7:43am

EXACTLY


Duane McDade said:

Rich, They are not allowed to tell you too much about the machine because some people/patients will change the settings. That would be like letting patients perscribe thier own medications. That's it in a nut shell.

RichM said:

Mike no I need the one that the tech gets but does not give you. It has each of the settings and what they are and what each option is for each setting. Thanks I have the user guide and it is very high level (not much info).
Rich

Mike said:

actually, this is easier, the link itself: http://www.respironics.com/UserGuides/BiPAP_ST_User_Manual.pdf

Mike said:

RichM, look for and click on the listing (last one under the letter "B" for BiPAP) for the Respironics BiPAP S/T user manual, and there you download the pdf manual for the Respironics BiPAP S/T. is that what you were looking for?

RichM said:

Thanks for those links, but I am still looking for the setup guide for the Respironics S/T This will show what the setting are for the ST and what they mean. I just don't like having a machine that I don't know what it is doing and why. And from my experience with both the tech that original set it up and the sleep center that did some of the resetting both did not really know what they were doing (there own words to me) and could not answer what the other setting on the machine were or how to set them if they were needed or not. It does not give me much comfort that I am getting the needed help from them. I had ask the sleep center to get what info they can from the Respironics Rep when he comes in, but I have not hear anything so far from that. So I had put the request out here for group to help me. Again thanks for the links you gave me but they do not answer my questions.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on April 3, 2009 at 3:59pm

Thanks Jeff. That's on point for what I was asking.

j n k said:

Getting back to the original question (if anyone still cares :-)), different machine brands have different approaches to obstructive/central differentiation: ResMed autos, for example, assume any obstructive apnea that occurs above 10 cm pressure might be a central, and doesn't attack it. ResMeds do attack flow limitations above 10 cm, on the theory that doing so will preemptively deal with obstructive apneas that would have occurred above 10 cm, since most obstructives are preceded by flow limitations.

Respironics autos attempt to treat any apnea that follows another apnea, and does so by increasing pressure. If the increased pressure doesn't treat the apnea, the Respironics machine marks it as a possible central, in hindsight.

The Sandman auto attempts to pick up heart oscillations in the flow signal, and if there is an apnea with those oscillations, the machine knows it is a central, since there would be no way to pick up heart osciallations if there was an obstruction. I believe that feature is patented.

Hope that addresses your original question, Mike.

jeff

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on April 3, 2009 at 5:15pm

thanks jnk
j n k said:

Getting back to the original question (if anyone still cares :-)), different machine brands have different approaches to obstructive/central differentiation:

ResMed autos, for example, assume any obstructive apnea that occurs above 10 cm pressure might be a central, and doesn't attack it. ResMeds do attack flow limitations above 10 cm, on the theory that doing so will preemptively deal with obstructive apneas that would have occurred above 10 cm, since most obstructives are preceded by flow limitations.

Respironics autos attempt to treat any apnea that follows another apnea, and does so by increasing pressure. If the increased pressure doesn't treat the apnea, the Respironics machine marks it as a possible central, in hindsight.

The Sandman auto attempts to pick up heart oscillations in the flow signal, and if there is an apnea with those oscillations, the machine knows it is a central, since there would be no way to pick up heart osciallations if there was an obstruction. I believe that feature is patented.

Hope that addresses your original question, Mike.

jeff

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Permalink Reply by Mike on April 5, 2009 at 9:03pm

Jeff, just looking over this again and realize i don't understand the Sandman's patented feature at all: what is a heart oscillation and how would a machine connected to a nasal mask pick it up?

j n k said:

Getting back to the original question (if anyone still cares :-)), different machine brands have different approaches to obstructive/central differentiation:
ResMed autos, for example, assume any obstructive apnea that occurs above 10 cm pressure might be a central, and doesn't attack it. ResMeds do attack flow limitations above 10 cm, on the theory that doing so will preemptively deal with obstructive apneas that would have occurred above 10 cm, since most obstructives are preceded by flow limitations.
Respironics autos attempt to treat any apnea that follows another apnea, and does so by increasing pressure. If the increased pressure doesn't treat the apnea, the Respironics machine marks it as a possible central, in hindsight.

The Sandman auto attempts to pick up heart oscillations in the flow signal, and if there is an apnea with those oscillations, the machine knows it is a central, since there would be no way to pick up heart osciallations if there was an obstruction. I believe that feature is patented.

Hope that addresses your original question, Mike.

jeff

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