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ASV vs. CPAP
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Judy on
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Yer yoking, right??? I'm still struggling to understand the Resmed VPAP Auto (bi-level auto) and I also have a Respironics pre-M Series Bi-PAP Auto w/Bi-Flex as a backup that I hope I never have to tangle w/and try to use!!! I did take it in and have my local DME supplier set it according to my in-lab titration but .... its the one I'm hoping to get the "stench" out of. The Adapt SV is some type of even more sophisticated bi-level I think.
I'll put Rock Hinkle on the spot:
He has the Resmed VPAP Adapt SV Clinicians Manual (in all fairness he only received it w/in the last 2 days or so) so maybe he'd like to stick his neck out and explain the differences and maybe he'll want to pass until he has a chance to study it a bit.
Daniel Levy should be able to explain perhaps since he is a DME supplier and I would expect will have had more experience w/them than Rock Hinkle who is a PSGT working on getting his RPSGT.
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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have learned that ASV (Adaptive Servo Ventilation) machines are basically bilevel machines with the added ability to adjust IPAP upward very rapidly (within one breath) if the sleeper looks like they won't reach the target volume or flow that the machine has been tracking.
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I've actually asked this question of sleep doctors before and drawn either blank stares or assurances that the technological differences are so complex that i could not possibly understand them. perhaps so, but if a sleep doc has a command of the difference in the algorithms, then he should be able to explain it on some basic level to the lay person.
Mike said:have learned that ASV (Adaptive Servo Ventilation) machines are basically bilevel machines with the added ability to adjust IPAP upward very rapidly (within one breath) if the sleeper looks like they won't reach the target volume or flow that the machine has been tracking.
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Permalink Reply by Duane McDade on
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The CPAP Provides a Constant Pressure this is quite effective for obstructive sleep Apnea. ASV in human terms will adjust the inhalation pressure so it will macth the normal breathing of the patient. This machine is for ones who have Complex Sleep Apnea ( Central Sleep Apnea). This is once again keeping it simlpe, is where the brain stops, or forgets to breathe.
so, if the machine notes a decraese in breathing..... it will turn up the pressure until the patient matches that pressure. then it will return to the standard presure (VEEP). I have only had to use an ASV a few times in the past year. Central sleep Apnea is not as common as Obstructive, and Bi-Level covers the patients who can not adapt tp CPAP. The reason that Sv's wont work for CPAP patients is the VEEP. This is your inhalation pressure on most machines this can not be set above 10cm/h20...... Some patients need much more than that to control their Apnea.
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are you using VEEP interchangeably with IPAP?
Duane McDade said:The reason that Sv's wont work for CPAP patients is the VEEP. This is your inhalation pressure on most machines this can not be set above 10cm/h20...... Some patients need much more than that to control their Apnea.
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no the veep is all you can adjust..... the IPAP is on autopilot.
Mike said:are you using VEEP interchangeably with IPAP?
Duane McDade said:The reason that Sv's wont work for CPAP patients is the VEEP. This is your inhalation pressure on most machines this can not be set above 10cm/h20...... Some patients need much more than that to control their Apnea.
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the veep is the exhalation pressure.
Duane McDade said:no the veep is all you can adjust..... the IPAP is on autopilot.
Mike said:are you using VEEP interchangeably with IPAP?
Duane McDade said:The reason that Sv's wont work for CPAP patients is the VEEP. This is your inhalation pressure on most machines this can not be set above 10cm/h20...... Some patients need much more than that to control their Apnea.
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With a SV machine only 1 pressure is adjusted to titrate the Clomplex Sleep Apnea Patient this is the VEEP. This is the exhalation pressure. This pressure stays the same and the Inhalation prussure varies as to the patients needs ....to control or flatten out the Central Apneas.
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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NO WAY! I have barely seen these machines. Let alone understand them. I have learned more about them from this forum than anywhere else I have looked. Even reading the manual(which I have not yet) without ever using the machine I would not even try to explain the differences between the 2. So Judy I will stay off center stage for this one.
Judy said:Yer yoking, right??? I'm still struggling to understand the Resmed VPAP Auto (bi-level auto) and I also have a Respironics pre-M Series Bi-PAP Auto w/Bi-Flex as a backup that I hope I never have to tangle w/and try to use!!! I did take it in and have my local DME supplier set it according to my in-lab titration but .... its the one I'm hoping to get the "stench" out of. The Adapt SV is some type of even more sophisticated bi-level I think.
I'll put Rock Hinkle on the spot:
He has the Resmed VPAP Adapt SV Clinicians Manual (in all fairness he only received it w/in the last 2 days or so) so maybe he'd like to stick his neck out and explain the differences and maybe he'll want to pass until he has a chance to study it a bit.
Daniel Levy should be able to explain perhaps since he is a DME supplier and I would expect will have had more experience w/them than Rock Hinkle who is a PSGT working on getting his RPSGT.
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How does an ASV or any auto titrating machine know the difference between OSA or CSA? if a pt is only wearing a mask what is the determining factor? How can a machine with one standard for biometric feed back tell if there is blockage or a complete lack of respiratory effort?
Duane McDade said:The CPAP Provides a Constant Pressure this is quite effective for obstructive sleep Apnea. ASV in human terms will adjust the inhalation pressure so it will macth the normal breathing of the patient. This machine is for ones who have Complex Sleep Apnea ( Central Sleep Apnea). This is once again keeping it simlpe, is where the brain stops, or forgets to breathe.
so, if the machine notes a decraese in breathing..... it will turn up the pressure until the patient matches that pressure. then it will return to the standard presure (VEEP). I have only had to use an ASV a few times in the past year. Central sleep Apnea is not as common as Obstructive, and Bi-Level covers the patients who can not adapt tp CPAP. The reason that Sv's wont work for CPAP patients is the VEEP. This is your inhalation pressure on most machines this can not be set above 10cm/h20...... Some patients need much more than that to control their Apnea.
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Rock, i have a ton of respect for you as a professional for coming forward and admitting to not knowing something. any professional can try to talk one step ahead of a lay person and pull the wool over his eyes as to knowing his stuff -- it takes a true pro to know when he knows or doesn't know something, and being willing to admit it.
Rock Hinkle said:NO WAY! I have barely seen these machines. Let alone understand them. I have learned more about them from this forum than anywhere else I have looked. Even reading the manual(which I have not yet) without ever using the machine I would not even try to explain the differences between the 2. So Judy I will stay off center stage for this one.
Judy said:Yer yoking, right??? I'm still struggling to understand the Resmed VPAP Auto (bi-level auto) and I also have a Respironics pre-M Series Bi-PAP Auto w/Bi-Flex as a backup that I hope I never have to tangle w/and try to use!!! I did take it in and have my local DME supplier set it according to my in-lab titration but .... its the one I'm hoping to get the "stench" out of. The Adapt SV is some type of even more sophisticated bi-level I think.
I'll put Rock Hinkle on the spot:
He has the Resmed VPAP Adapt SV Clinicians Manual (in all fairness he only received it w/in the last 2 days or so) so maybe he'd like to stick his neck out and explain the differences and maybe he'll want to pass until he has a chance to study it a bit.
Daniel Levy should be able to explain perhaps since he is a DME supplier and I would expect will have had more experience w/them than Rock Hinkle who is a PSGT working on getting his RPSGT.
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this is worthy of its own thread, which i will break out on its own now.
Rock Hinkle said:How does an ASV or any auto titrating machine know the difference between OSA or CSA? if a pt is only wearing a mask what is the determining factor? How can a machine with one standard for biometric feed back tell if there is blockage or a complete lack of respiratory effort?
Duane McDade said:The CPAP Provides a Constant Pressure this is quite effective for obstructive sleep Apnea. ASV in human terms will adjust the inhalation pressure so it will macth the normal breathing of the patient. This machine is for ones who have Complex Sleep Apnea ( Central Sleep Apnea). This is once again keeping it simlpe, is where the brain stops, or forgets to breathe.
so, if the machine notes a decraese in breathing..... it will turn up the pressure until the patient matches that pressure. then it will return to the standard presure (VEEP). I have only had to use an ASV a few times in the past year. Central sleep Apnea is not as common as Obstructive, and Bi-Level covers the patients who can not adapt tp CPAP. The reason that Sv's wont work for CPAP patients is the VEEP. This is your inhalation pressure on most machines this can not be set above 10cm/h20...... Some patients need much more than that to control their Apnea.
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