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New healthcare reform.
Perhaps this is not a relevant discussion in this forum, and perhaps I am moving myself into a heated debate. But seen here from Denmark, has Obama's new healthcare reform made the U.S. to a more humane country.
I have read that many Americans believe that this reform will make the U.S. into another Europe.
But it is still the case that the U.S. is very far from Europe's social structure. I do not speak
either for or against this development. There are many pros and cons of this
development.
But best of my knowledge, this is a big step forward with the new healthcare reform.
Congratulations.
Henning
Views: 69
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Judy on
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Well, lets see. Wales is part of the UK, isn't it? And the UK is pretty much broken off pieces of the European continent? And Scandanavia is part of the European continent?
I just never figgered out how Asia is a separate continent from Europe. They look like one big land mass to me.
99 said:and where does wales fit into your geography as some wrongly say it is part of england
j n k said:Well, in defense of Rock, I too consider Ireland and Scotland to both still be far outposts of Scandinavia, meself. But perhaps I have me history and geography a wee bit discombobulated. :-)
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This isn't the one I originally read which was in Time, Newsweek or US News and World Report but it will do ...
Los Angeles Times - 05 Feb 09
"... Thanks to lucrative options and a strong stock market, the typical chief executive was earning 525 times the pay of the average U.S. worker by 2000, according to one recent study. The gap has narrowed in recent years, the study found, but CEOs still on average earn 344 times the salaries of average workers. ...
... "Wall Street has the best, shrewdest lawyers in the world looking to maintain these outrageous pay levels." ...
... Some critics of Obama's plan said restricting executive pay would dissuade the most talented people from working at the companies most in need of help, or dissuade companies from seeking necessary government aid. ..."
The bold emphasis is mine. I think more correctly "restricting executive pay would dissuade the most talented CROOKS from working at the companies most in need of help ..." would be a more accurate statement. And that would be because their fellow crooks had already bled those companies dry.
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Permalink Reply by Henning on
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Judy,
That must be what we here call the American dream. In the U.S. there is the opportunity to become extremely wealthy, unlike here in Denmark, where our tax is a kind of equalization of income.
There are many advantages and disadvantages of any system, and here in Denmark it is almost impossible to become very rich. In return, we in several years has been appointed to the nation with most fortunate people in the world.
This is obviously because the general public generally has a higher income than the average in other countries, and our other social rights.
But conversely, it also means that Danish companies have difficulty competing with other countries, the cost is very high.
So our only option for growth is knowledge. Therefore, all education in this country is free of charge.
Here we have some fundamental differences in culture, and not everyone agrees with the way we deal with problems, but the majority decides.
A typical Danish CEO has 8 - 10 times a worker's wage, but I must add that a Danish worker earns more than an average U.S. worker.
Henning
Judy said:This isn't the one I originally read which was in Time, Newsweek or US News and World Report but it will do ...
Los Angeles Times - 05 Feb 09 "... Thanks to lucrative options and a strong stock market, the typical chief executive was earning 525 times the pay of the average U.S. worker by 2000, according to one recent study. The gap has narrowed in recent years, the study found, but CEOs still on average earn 344 times the salaries of average workers. ... ... "Wall Street has the best, shrewdest lawyers in the world looking to maintain these outrageous pay levels." ...
... Some critics of Obama's plan said restricting executive pay would dissuade the most talented people from working at the companies most in need of help, or dissuade companies from seeking necessary government aid. ..."
The bold emphasis is mine. I think more correctly "restricting executive pay would dissuade the most talented CROOKS from working at the companies most in need of help ..." would be a more accurate statement. And that would be because their fellow crooks had already bled those companies dry.
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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I did not realize that we had so many republicans on the forum. You must be in heaven right wing wally.
Do we have any uninsured people on the forum? How about a small buisiness owner? I would like to hear some different opinions on this. It is easy for us as policy holders to lash out at this bill. If you have a job and insurance than this is not your bill. It never was. If you can not find anything in this bill that you agree with then you are most likely profiting from the lack of healthcare. 30-50 million people do not have insurance in this country. We live in a country where your chances are better for contracting herpes than finding a job with decent insurance. It is true that no one is turned away from the emergency rooms. No one should be in an ethical world. The emergency room is not the place to go for preventive medicine. Nor should anyone have to pay emergency room prices because they have a stomach virus. No one should have to take their child to the emergency room for antibiotics. This has been allowed to go on because of the profit involved. If a person can't pay then they end up knee deep in medical debt. It is just a rumor the medical debt does not effect your credit report. The system is set up to keep the poor poor, and the rich rich. let the doctors whine. Let them leave if they please. There are 5 medical students for every one that goes. If a small paycut makes you decide that you no longer want to help people then I say the hell with ya. We do not need doctors, or any other medical practitioners with that mental attitude. Doctors always have and always will make a decent living. I would remind all of us that we have some very disturbing issues going on right now in our country. We, the employed insurance holders do not represent those issues. We should though.
Bad soap box! Back in your cage!
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Permalink Reply by 99 on
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CORRECT
Judy said:Well, lets see. Wales is part of the UK, isn't it? And the UK is pretty much broken off pieces of the European continent? And Scandanavia is part of the European continent?
I just never figgered out how Asia is a separate continent from Europe. They look like one big land mass to me.
99 said:and where does wales fit into your geography as some wrongly say it is part of england
j n k said:Well, in defense of Rock, I too consider Ireland and Scotland to both still be far outposts of Scandinavia, meself. But perhaps I have me history and geography a wee bit discombobulated. :-)
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Rock HInkle!!!! How DARE you even suggest that I am a Re ... Rep ... one of THOSE people!!! I am very much in favor of insurances NOT being able to deny coverage due to "pre-exisiting conditions", etc., etc., etc. All I am saying is that there is a LOT of stupidity in the bill as well. I'm GLAD it was passed. I did my bit w/letters and phone calls to my legislators (we're "stuck" w/Dave Camp in our district) to express support and approval.
Now that it IS passed tho, I feel totally free to criticize its greatest flaw - and supposedly one of the MAIN reasons for its existence - lowering health care costs w/o reducing quality of care. Almost nothing in this bill pays more than lip service to reducing costs. And a TAX on medical devices????? Gimme a break! It is ridiculous that we must support free ER care to illegal immigrants - but won't allow them to buy into inexpensive insurance. Do we REALLY believe that this bill gives ENOUGH assistance to the really poor? I am ADAMANTLY pro-choice, but I don't want MY tax money paying for some woman's abortion. I DETEST anti-abortionists. Let them put their money where their mouth is - let them adopt and raise at their own expense one of these fetuses - otherwise keep their nose out of the choice between a woman and her doctor.
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My biggest problem with the health care bill is how it was written. No one understands what's in it and I have no confidence that even the writers truly understand all its nuances. Our country was built on compromise and there was none of that from any faction.
There should have been one of 2 processes.... Either a long negotiation in an open forum where all can see all arguments, or a stepwise set of reforms where each step is clearly put forward, debated and voted on. Instead we had a process which had to be done "tomorrow" with contentious partisanship on both sides.
I have no confidence that the result will accomplish any desirable results for our country.It will probably end up being a fiscal disaster.... at least that's been the result of US govt policies for the last 10 years (which does indeed include the last year!).
The whole lot of them, democrats and republicans should be voted out of office and start again.
Chris
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Hell, they didn't read any of the "bail out" package. What makes us think they really read any of the health care package?? The thing of it is - passing this bill makes it a reality and now its going to have to be patched to make it actually workable. The Dems had little choice - the Re... Rep... THOSE people were NOT about to give ANY support to ANY health care reform. Their strategy from day one was to either force its death - or let the Dems take the blame.
(We had our appointment w/our income tax preparer today. Can you tell?)
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Permalink Reply by Walt Service on
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Please don't go thinking that there is any difference between having the title of Democrat or Republican after your name for those in Washington DC. The vast majority of those clowns are cut from the same cloth....
I feel for your tax burden out there Henning.
Henning said:I understand why you dislike the word "entitled".
Denmark is also a capitalist country, although it is now difficult to discern. Residents have today so many rights that it has become much too much. Everything is paid out of taxes, which for example means that I pay 68% of the of the last third of my income. We also have very high sales taxes. It is absolutely horrifying, and many young people choose to move abroad because of the tax burden.
The reason that I'm different on health care is probably because it is a law written in our Constitution - a counterpart to your Declaration of Independence. We are all born with that right. I am sure that all Danes are in favor of this right. Moreover, our system is identical with most countries in Europe (EU).
When I look at the U.S. there have been a number of presidents tried to make a health care reform the last 100 years. (Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Clinton and now Obama) so it can hardly come as a surprise that it comes now. What surprises me is that Republican politicians are so tough opponents. There have been a couple of Republican presidents from the above mentioned.
Henning
Walt Service said:In my opinion, this is just another nail in the coffin of the USA being a capitalist country. If this Obama bill holds (which is a really big if) it will be the first time that our Federal government has made a requirement that it's citizens had to buy a product whether they liked it or not.
The people of our country weren't dying in the streets, with the hospitals shutting their doors or tossing them out on their fannies before we had Obama care nor before LBJ forced medicare upon us.
You stated that in your view, it's "self-evident that all are entitled to medical treatment"... Wow, how I dislike that magical word entitled. According to our Declaration of Independence, we're entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...that sure in the devil doesn't mean that we are to expect to the Federal government to provide us with health care...
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for the record...I'm a Constitutionalist.....
and...you said , "We live in a country where your chances are better for contracting herpes than finding a job with decent insurance." perhaps you should hang out in nicer places....
Rock Hinkle said:I did not realize that we had so many republicans on the forum. You must be in heaven right wing wally.
Do we have any uninsured people on the forum? How about a small buisiness owner? I would like to hear some different opinions on this. It is easy for us as policy holders to lash out at this bill. If you have a job and insurance than this is not your bill. It never was. If you can not find anything in this bill that you agree with then you are most likely profiting from the lack of healthcare. 30-50 million people do not have insurance in this country. We live in a country where your chances are better for contracting herpes than finding a job with decent insurance. It is true that no one is turned away from the emergency rooms. No one should be in an ethical world. The emergency room is not the place to go for preventive medicine. Nor should anyone have to pay emergency room prices because they have a stomach virus. No one should have to take their child to the emergency room for antibiotics. This has been allowed to go on because of the profit involved. If a person can't pay then they end up knee deep in medical debt. It is just a rumor the medical debt does not effect your credit report. The system is set up to keep the poor poor, and the rich rich. let the doctors whine. Let them leave if they please. There are 5 medical students for every one that goes. If a small paycut makes you decide that you no longer want to help people then I say the hell with ya. We do not need doctors, or any other medical practitioners with that mental attitude. Doctors always have and always will make a decent living. I would remind all of us that we have some very disturbing issues going on right now in our country. We, the employed insurance holders do not represent those issues. We should though.
Bad soap box! Back in your cage!
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Couldn't agree with you more Chris!! Of course, we've got a population which is much more concerned with Hollywood and what's on TV as opposed to voting for the most qualified folks to serve us in Washington.
Chris Larsson said:My biggest problem with the health care bill is how it was written. No one understands what's in it and I have no confidence that even the writers truly understand all its nuances. Our country was built on compromise and there was none of that from any faction.
There should have been one of 2 processes.... Either a long negotiation in an open forum where all can see all arguments, or a stepwise set of reforms where each step is clearly put forward, debated and voted on. Instead we had a process which had to be done "tomorrow" with contentious partisanship on both sides.
I have no confidence that the result will accomplish any desirable results for our country.It will probably end up being a fiscal disaster.... at least that's been the result of US govt policies for the last 10 years (which does indeed include the last year!).
The whole lot of them, democrats and republicans should be voted out of office and start again.
Chris
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TIME magazine has an interesting article on "Why Britain Is Feeling Bleak"in their 29 Mar 10 issue which just hit my mailbox today. I thought I was reading about the USA!!!
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