Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Serrano on April 22, 2012 at 11:56pm

hi terry

 

thanks so much for answering. i´m so resilient to taking the antidepresants. but i´m so weak and sick from not sleeping well i don´t know what else to do. i have my shrink, my psychologist and my whole family on my back asking me to do that. although my psychologist said i still have to use the cpap. so it´s not a miracle drug. i really don´t know why i´m gonna take them. i don´t know what they do exactly (the antidepresants). the sleeping pills i already need them. i can´t sleep without them every night. but i just take one. i don´t know if you meant that the sleeping pills are addictive too.

 

i don´t know what to do to start sleeping better with the vpap sv machine and my reflux. i feel like i´m going crazy or dying.

Terry Vella said:

John, I haven't read your whole history but I assume you were diagnosed with sleep apnea otherwise you wouldn't be on here. The depression is probably a by product of not using CPAP. It was for me. I was diagnosed with depression put on double the theraputic dose of antidepressants, on most sleeping pills including Valium, Xanax and Seroquel sometimes all at the same time and they still didn't work, just made me worse because the tried to fix the symptoms not the cause. I'm not saying they won't work for you but be careful, they say the are not addictive but in reality the are as you will probably get side effects. If you have SA, antidepressants are probably the worst thing for you. One of the side effects is insomnia (defeats the purpose). My last bit of advice is listen to your body and your brain, I wish I had of a lot earlier.

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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on April 23, 2012 at 1:18am

John, we are all different but this sound almost exactly the same as my story, I went through it for 2 years. My wife said I had to listen to the specialists or she would leave me so I did. I never believed I had depression but I went along with them for my wife. I saw 6 different specialist in 2 years and they all said I had depression, I was hopitalised for 9 days in early 2010 because I didn't sleep for a week prior I was so panicked that I was going to die. In the end I was having chest pains and was getting 1-2 hours sleep a night and then going to work each day all drugged up because the drugs hadn't had time to work. In the end I said exactly the same as you, I was dying, I think I had a month left to live. I demanded to see a sleep specialist (my last hope). The sleep specialist rush me in, when I walked through his door he said I don't have depression I have sleep apnea without even an exam. He got me a sleep sudy the next week and I have severe sleep apnea and my AHI is 30. That man saved my life, a year later, I still have a way to go but I get 6-7 hours quality sleep, I feel great, I jog 4-5 kilometres a day and do weights at the gym everyday. I'm almost off the antidepressant altogether and don't take any sleeping pills. When I think I need to I take valerian forte (a herb), Inow take fish oil capsules and a multivitamin. I have changed my diet and only drink herbal tea no caffine. I am so clear now where before my head was so foggy all the time. I'm not saying you shouldn't listen to your Dr's but you need to make your own decisions as only you know what you are going through. Dr's learn from books but I think we learn from the book of life. To answer your other question, sleeping pills are more addictive than antidepressants. What are you on? I'm here if you need someone to talk too. I try now to help and support people with my advice, I'm not a medical Dr so will not be unhappy if you don't take my advice, just trying to give some first hand experience, good luck.

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Permalink Reply by John Serrano on April 23, 2012 at 11:02am

Terry:

Hi. thanks so much for writing. you´re so nice. i can´t believe someone understands what i´m going through. i got up even before reading your message and texted my psychiatrist to tell him i´m not going to see him today. he´s the one that wants me to take the antidepresant. i don´t have the money for that right now and i´m frankly afraid ot doing it. i did before in the past and got anxiety and sleeplessness. he thinks i have anxiety, and i probably do as well as depresion, but i also think they´re are due to my untreated sleep anpea. plus i have other chronic digestive ailments that make me weak. so, is a pill gonna make all this go away? they say me feeling worse for 2 weeks is normal before i start feeling better. and i know how bad it is, i went through it before and i haven´t been able to pass the first week on antidepresants cause i get anxious and sleepless. i guess sometimes you have to make your own decisions, even though it´s hard feeling always exhausted and weak. I don´t wanna go to see my shrink and have him preach at me cause i haven´t started using the cpap or the antidepresants. i have things to do this week and with my low energy i take forever to do them. i don´t know if i´m doing right or not, but it feels right to do this today. i just bought another box or zopiclone today. i had to take clonazepam last night cause i was out of the first. my shrink tells me benzodiazepines relax the trhoat and make apnea worse. she doesn´t want me to take it because of that.  i´ve read that
but i guess it comes to a point where you just want to sleep, even if it´s poorly. i´m so glad you found a good doctor that sent you to a good sleep clinic and you´re better off now . which one did you go to? i think you´re strong. me i stopped exercising a long time ago. and i don´t hold a job either becasue of my exhaustion, depresion and weakness. so, you don´t think the antidepresants helped you at all? or did they? the goal is to stop the sleeping pills al together im the future? thanks!!! Terry Vella said:

John, we are all different but this sound almost exactly the same as my story, I went through it for 2 years. My wife said I had to listen to the specialists or she would leave me so I did. I never believed I had depression but I went along with them for my wife. I saw 6 different specialist in 2 years and they all said I had depression, I was hopitalised for 9 days in early 2010 because I didn't sleep for a week prior I was so panicked that I was going to die. In the end I was having chest pains and was getting 1-2 hours sleep a night and then going to work each day all drugged up because the drugs hadn't had time to work. In the end I said exactly the same as you, I was dying, I think I had a month left to live. I demanded to see a sleep specialist (my last hope). The sleep specialist rush me in, when I walked through his door he said I don't have depression I have sleep apnea without even an exam. He got me a sleep sudy the next week and I have severe sleep apnea and my AHI is 30. That man saved my life, a year later, I still have a way to go but I get 6-7 hours quality sleep, I feel great, I jog 4-5 kilometres a day and do weights at the gym everyday. I'm almost off the antidepressant altogether and don't take any sleeping pills. When I think I need to I take valerian forte (a herb), Inow take fish oil capsules and a multivitamin. I have changed my diet and only drink herbal tea no caffine. I am so clear now where before my head was so foggy all the time. I'm not saying you shouldn't listen to your Dr's but you need to make your own decisions as only you know what you are going through. Dr's learn from books but I think we learn from the book of life. To answer your other question, sleeping pills are more addictive than antidepressants. What are you on? I'm here if you need someone to talk too. I try now to help and support people with my advice, I'm not a medical Dr so will not be unhappy if you don't take my advice, just trying to give some first hand experience, good luck.

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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on April 23, 2012 at 6:05pm

John, you know what, these illnesses have changed me, I never used to be a nice person, but I have re evaluated my life values and changed and are now dedicated to helping others.  I'm in Australia, my Drs told me not to sleep a sleep specialist because I had depression and not to look on the net etc. My brain and my body told me to keep looking until I found the answer. I could stop myself (maybe not so good). In the end I saw a advert in the paper looking for people with sleep disorders for research, I rang up and didn't fit the criteria but when I told the person on the phone what I was going through she said she woud get me to see the Sleep Specilaist without a Dr's referral. I forgot to mention I was also getting stomach pains which they put down to depression, in the end I was vomiting after every meal and in the middle of the night. I said this is not depression, something is wrong. I went to a surgeon and he diagnosed gallstones, I had my gallbladder removed and my gallbladder was so badly infected he said if I had have waited much longer it would have turned to cancer and I would be dead. I put up with the pain for two years because everyone thought it was depression. You may understand why I don't have the greatest opinion of the medical profession. Anyway, it's up to you but if you've been diagnosed with SA you should be using your CPAP, why aren't you? I still see my Phyc only for a script which I hope to be off in the next month or so, $180 for 15 mins and I tell him the same thing each visit, I wish I was making that type of money, maybe I'm in the wrong business. Keep in there John, I know it doesn't seem like it now but there is light at the end of the tunnel. I've said it on here before this is a marathon not a sprint. Keep us all updated. Even with CPAP it is a long journey and there will be times when you want to give up, that's when you get the strength to go on.

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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on April 23, 2012 at 8:12pm

John, sorry I didn't read your other post as to why your not using CPAP. I don't use a VPAP only a normal CPAP with autoset so my pressures change as needed. Mary is fantastic with the VPAP and I think she like I have learn't through trial and error. You are probably best at this stage to not get too involved in what all the pressures mean, it's probably more important to get your settings back to what was prescribed and stick with it for a while. I would suggest maybe Rock could assist you a bit more as he is a Tech. Once you get the pressures back to what they should be lets talk about the mask and make sure your not getting leaks. I agreed with psyhc to stay off the antidepressants until you give CPAP a good try. If you haven't started them you may not need to go on them. I think positively of the CPAP and you will go a long way.

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Permalink Reply by John Serrano on April 23, 2012 at 11:04pm

hi terry:

 

thanks for sharing your experiences with me. it means a lot, it helps a lot now.

 

i haven´t started the antidepresant yet and i´m not going to for now. but once again i don´t understand why you say i shouldn´t. why is it that some people think they´re so bad and others defend them? is it true that they cause dependancy?

 

the reason why i haven´t taken them is becasue i can´t tolerate them. i´ve got some sort of altered nervous system and i get anxious when i take them and i also get even more insomnia. now i know they say these are normal symptoms of the beginning of antidepresants.

 

for now i´m glad that i´m coming back to trying to address my sleep apnea issue. it´s not easy, it´s been a journey like you say and right now i´m stuck at not even knowing how to use my machine, or at leat get to set it back to my last sleep study´s prescription presures. then i have to stick to cpap until i sleep better i guess being positive.

 

thanks so mucho for your advice and support. you don´t know how much that meas now. i feel alone here there atent good specialists on sleep apnea or cpap here. plus it´s a complicated disease that has a lot of factors and obsticles and it´s hard to be strong being exhausted and depressed all the time.

 

right now my family and my shrinks all think i´m just depresed and anxious. that´s why i feel the presure to take them. but the hardest part is to feel that no one believes you´re suffering from a physical disease. it´s al depresion or anxiety or psychological. i completly identified with your story. i have so many other health issues, mostly digestive.

 

thanks so much for writing and sharing and supporting. i hope you´re better off now.

 

john.

 

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Permalink Reply by Terry Vella on April 24, 2012 at 12:07am

John, I'm not saying you should take them, what I'm saying is explore all other avenues first. Antidepressants have a place for people that definately have depression, my brother and sister are on them and I don't discourage them because they believe they need them. Everyone around me kept saying it was all in my head and I kept saying but it feels so real, no one know what we go through. Just another suggestion and it maybe hard where you live but have you tried CBT or Mindfulness or both, I do them and I believe they have helped me with the worry, anxiety and stress of all this and i don't have to take anything for it. I hope Rock or one of the others can help you get your settings back to how they should be. Do you have any other symptoms i.e. cold hands and feet, aching bones or muscles, chest pains etc?

Also, what was you AHI at your sleep study? How many times did you stop breathing. Keep going John, were all in this together.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on April 24, 2012 at 8:35am

Good luck, John.  Get your machine back to the original prescription.  Why did you change the settings?  Use it 100% of sleep time if you expect any improvement.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on April 28, 2012 at 8:45am

Now I realize this is not good advice.  Of course you do need to use your machine all the time you sleep, first you have to be able to sleep.  Talk to your psychiatrist about sleep or try to find a specialsist who can help you learn to sleep.  Lots of psychotherapists or social workers can help you with learning to get good sleep.  Good Luck,

Mary Z.

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Permalink Reply by John Serrano on May 10, 2012 at 8:04pm

hi mary:

 

i´ve been a while away and stopped treatment again because i´m having a bad reflux flare up. i just don´t know what to do with it, it´s such a chronic family thing that´s been with me for years. i just feel that because of the reflux and post nasal drip at night the cpap is pointless. i even feel i might make my reflux worse. all that wind forcing itself into my throat.

 

so, i´m taking care of my diet and following treatment while this flare up passes. i don´t know if i should use the cpap like this or not. when i´ve tried i won´t fall asleep. it´s hard enough to feel shortness of breath sensation when i lie down because of the reflux.

 

i also feel my throat and mouth are sooooooooooo tight!!! i wonder if there´s any trick to have like the optimal position of my head, neck and face in my sleep so the throat isn´t so tight. i have a big tongue, my mouth is so crowded my teeth are big and ulcerate my tongue. sometimes i use the cpap together with a mouth guard cause i feel that because of the tightness the air won´t go in. the air leaks through my lips with my mouth closed. that´s why i use a quatro.

 

i have a friend that has a similar problem or worse (no reflux) . just like me, she has a reciding chin and after her upper and lower mandibular advancement surgery she still has to sleep with her cpap and she even has to sleep with an orthopedic neck that keeps her chin elevated and not down causing more obstruction.

 

i hope everyone reads this message and tries to help. i know saying here that not using cpap is like a crime, but i´m telling my true story hoping it helps. i feel very lost with cpap treatment (and with my digestion problem too to tell you the truth). i don´t know what to do to make it work.

 

also do you know people here who also have sleep apnea and GERD as well? i haven´t really shared experiences with people who have both things to know how they cope with it or fixed it.

 

thanks,

 

john.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on May 11, 2012 at 8:19am

John, GERD and sleep apnea often go hand in hand.  I have both, but my reflux is treated successfully with Prevacid.  You can try raising the head of the bed. They sell things for this, or you can do it with bricks or boards.  It has to be secure.  Don't eat within 3 hours of mealtime.  See a gastroenterologist for proper or better treatment.  If you have a doc that hasn't helped try a new  one. I understand why you don't want to use your machine until you get your reflux under control.  From the Mayo clinic to do at home- "Lifestyle changes may help reduce the frequency of heartburn. Consider trying to:

• Maintain a healthy weight. Excess pounds put pressure on your abdomen, pushing up your stomach and causing acid to back up into your esophagus. If your weight is healthy, work to maintain it. If you are overweight or obese, work to slowly lose weight — no more than 1 or 2 pounds (0.5 to 1 kilogram) a week. Ask your doctor for help in devising a weight-loss strategy that will work for you.
• Avoid tight-fitting clothing. Clothes that fit tightly around your waist put pressure on your abdomen and the lower esophageal sphincter.
• Avoid foods and drinks that trigger heartburn. Everyone has specific triggers. Common triggers such as fatty or fried foods, tomato sauce, alcohol, chocolate, mint, garlic, onion, and caffeine may make heartburn worse. Avoid foods you know will trigger your heartburn.
• Eat smaller meals. Avoid overeating by eating smaller meals.
• Don't lie down after a meal. Wait at least three hours after eating before lying down or going to bed.
• Elevate the head of your bed. If you regularly experience heartburn at night or while trying to sleep, put gravity to work for you. Place wood or cement blocks under the feet of your bed so that the head end is raised by six to nine inches. If it's not possible to elevate your bed, you can insert a wedge between your mattress and box spring to elevate your body from the waist up. Wedges are available at drugstores and medical supply stores. Raising your head with additional pillows is not effective.
• Don't smoke. Smoking decreases the lower esophageal sphincter's ability to function properly."

Surgery can also be done.  Good luck, keep us posted.

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