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Sleep Stages
"Bodies need to cycle through the 5 sleep stages 5x a night. The first 4 maintain metabolism, learning & memory - the 5th regulates mood."
Accurate?
Views: 57
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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Unless you are counting wake there are only 4 stages of sleep. n1, n2, n3, and stage REM. Stage 4 is not counted anymore as it is rarely seen in adults. Stage 4 merges into stage 3 which will eventually merge with stage 2 as we age.
Motor skill function is also something we get from those first few cycles. The 5th and 6th cycles of the night are mainly REM sleep.
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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So which stages do what in terms of regulating metabolism, learning, memory, motor skills and mood?
Rock Hinkle said:Unless you are counting wake there are only 4 stages of sleep. n1, n2, n3, and stage REM. Stage 4 is not counted anymore as it is rarely seen in adults. Stage 4 merges into stage 3 which will eventually merge with stage 2 as we age.
Motor skill function is also something we get from those first few cycles. The 5th and 6th cycles of the night are mainly REM sleep.
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Stage 2 has been found to be very important with motor skill function. Stage 2 and 3 are when a great deal of our hormones are released, and much of our healing and cell development occur. Growth hormone is released during stage 3 and at its peak is typically when we see stage 4 sleep. Without a certain level of growth hormone there is no stage 3 sleep. REM sleep controls mood,memory, and focus.
I do not want to give a wrong answer as to metabolism. I am just beginning to learn about this and nutrition as it pertains to sleep. I believe that metabolism may be affected by more than one stage. I do know that the constant arousals caused by apnea will cause a leptin imbalance. Leptin is the hormone that tells our brains that we have enough stored goods in our body to maintain our needs. When this hormone is out of balance we will crave food specifically carbs.
The short answer is that if your sleep cycles are shortened or interrupted consistantly your body will eventually breakdown mentally and physically. I will try to post some studies once I get back to my personal computer next week on these topics.
Mike said:So which stages do what in terms of regulating metabolism, learning, memory, motor skills and mood?
Rock Hinkle said:Unless you are counting wake there are only 4 stages of sleep. n1, n2, n3, and stage REM. Stage 4 is not counted anymore as it is rarely seen in adults. Stage 4 merges into stage 3 which will eventually merge with stage 2 as we age.
Motor skill function is also something we get from those first few cycles. The 5th and 6th cycles of the night are mainly REM sleep.
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Cool. What does stage 1 do, if anything?
Rock Hinkle said:Stage 2 has been found to be very important with motor skill function. Stage 2 and 3 are when a great deal of our hormones are released, and much of our healing and cell development occur. Growth hormone is released during stage 3 and at its peak is typically when we see stage 4 sleep. Without a certain level of growth hormone there is no stage 3 sleep. REM sleep controls mood,memory, and focus.
I do not want to give a wrong answer as to metabolism. I am just beginning to learn about this and nutrition as it pertains to sleep. I believe that metabolism may be affected by more than one stage. I do know that the constant arousals caused by apnea will cause a leptin imbalance. Leptin is the hormone that tells our brains that we have enough stored goods in our body to maintain our needs. When this hormone is out of balance we will crave food specifically carbs.
The short answer is that if your sleep cycles are shortened or interrupted consistantly your body will eventually breakdown mentally and physically. I will try to post some studies once I get back to my personal computer next week on these topics.
Mike said:So which stages do what in terms of regulating metabolism, learning, memory, motor skills and mood?
Rock Hinkle said:Unless you are counting wake there are only 4 stages of sleep. n1, n2, n3, and stage REM. Stage 4 is not counted anymore as it is rarely seen in adults. Stage 4 merges into stage 3 which will eventually merge with stage 2 as we age.
Motor skill function is also something we get from those first few cycles. The 5th and 6th cycles of the night are mainly REM sleep.
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Everything that I have read says that stage one is nothing more than the middle man.
Mike said:Cool. What does stage 1 do, if anything?
Rock Hinkle said:Stage 2 has been found to be very important with motor skill function. Stage 2 and 3 are when a great deal of our hormones are released, and much of our healing and cell development occur. Growth hormone is released during stage 3 and at its peak is typically when we see stage 4 sleep. Without a certain level of growth hormone there is no stage 3 sleep. REM sleep controls mood,memory, and focus.
I do not want to give a wrong answer as to metabolism. I am just beginning to learn about this and nutrition as it pertains to sleep. I believe that metabolism may be affected by more than one stage. I do know that the constant arousals caused by apnea will cause a leptin imbalance. Leptin is the hormone that tells our brains that we have enough stored goods in our body to maintain our needs. When this hormone is out of balance we will crave food specifically carbs.
The short answer is that if your sleep cycles are shortened or interrupted consistantly your body will eventually breakdown mentally and physically. I will try to post some studies once I get back to my personal computer next week on these topics.
Mike said:So which stages do what in terms of regulating metabolism, learning, memory, motor skills and mood?
Rock Hinkle said:Unless you are counting wake there are only 4 stages of sleep. n1, n2, n3, and stage REM. Stage 4 is not counted anymore as it is rarely seen in adults. Stage 4 merges into stage 3 which will eventually merge with stage 2 as we age.
Motor skill function is also something we get from those first few cycles. The 5th and 6th cycles of the night are mainly REM sleep.
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Permalink Reply by Pat Kniel on
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A sleep doctor recently told me that as you get older you no longer have or need REM sleep. I had never heard that before. Any thoughts please?
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I have never heard that. Stage 3 dwindles as we age.
Pat Kniel said:A sleep doctor recently told me that as you get older you no longer have or need REM sleep. I had never heard that before. Any thoughts please?
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Rock, It doesn't surprise me that you never heard that. This doctor did not impress me. I have a neuromuscular disorder that affects all of my muscles, including respiratory muscles. After a long conversation he said 'you don't have a sleep problem, you have a breathing problem.' Duh. I knew that. But I have this need to breathe when I sleep.
I was just trying to find out if anything he said made sense. I think I have found a better doc and I will be having yet another sleep study tomorrow night. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed.
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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on
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I know this is off topic, but it distresses me that we have to work so hard to find good physicians. We go through doc after doc after doc trying to find the ones that know their field and are willing to work with us rather than dictate to us. We turn to groups such as SleepGuide, and thank goodness for them, to learn that there are different and sometimes better ways to deal with our many disorders. I had to learn about a "soft start" for my DBS system from a discussion forum, rather than the doc or the company rep (a way of turing on a DBS system that doesn't give an uncomfortable feeling of electric shock to the brain). I had to learn about exploring other avenues of treating my sleep apneas such a pursuing an ENT consult, rather than continually increasing pressures. Maybe I'll continue to need high pressures, but if they aren't controlling my sleep apnea something else needs to be looked at.
Maybe these docs need more sleep.
Pat Kniel said:Rock, It doesn't surprise me that you never heard that. This doctor did not impress me. I have a neuromuscular disorder that affects all of my muscles, including respiratory muscles. After a long conversation he said 'you don't have a sleep problem, you have a breathing problem.' Duh. I knew that. But I have this need to breathe when I sleep.
I was just trying to find out if anything he said made sense. I think I have found a better doc and I will be having yet another sleep study tomorrow night. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed.
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I certainly agree with this and perhaps this should be a different discussion as this is again off topic from Sleep Stages. Many times we don't know what we need from a doctor and do not know enough about the condition to ask the intelligent questions and get the guidance we need. I guess my frustration is mainly with myself in not being able with certain docs to make them hear me, or mainly to force them to give me enough time to answer my questions, to stay in the chair in the office until I'm satisfied. My failure to be able to do this makes me feel impotent. How do I learn these skills. Apologies Mike, I will move this to a new discussion.
j n k said:I agree with everything you said, Mary.
But here is the complication: It is the control-responsibility factor: It is impossible to hold someone responsible for something he has no control crossed.
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Permalink Reply by Donna B. on
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@Mike, I don't believe I reach the stages pertaining to memory and mood because I can't remember lots of ordinary everyday things, I found I am having to look up the spelling of words that I know how to spell and my morning mood is quite scary. I wake up with an overwhelming sense of doom and sadness. I work through it and shut it off in my mind when I get to work. As hard as mornings are for me I have to keep a positive upbeat mood for my clients. The love of my work is the only thing that keeps me sane through all of this.
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