Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Banyon on January 22, 2011 at 8:39am

Tiredjohnny1 said, "That just gives us more techs that arent good enough."

 

No, it just means that you have to do your job in evaluating candidates, selecting the ones who are going to perform well, and continuing evaluation of employees to make sure they actually do perform well.

 

I think you already know this because you state, "I have been amazed to interview RPSGTs who just don't know enough." I am assuming you did not hire those people.

 

Sure it would be nice if job candidates came to sleep labs with a little piece of paper that guaranteed they would be excellent competent employees. It would make your job very easy - just hire the dudes and put them to work - end of story.

 

But life is not like that. There is not a single profession that has a licensing or certification program that works like that!

 

Sorry but if you want to run a good sleep lab you will have to do the hard work of evaluating job candidates, evaluating employees, and firing the mistakes you made in selection. That is how you earn your salary. No easy way out.

 

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Permalink Reply by Tiredjohnny1 on January 22, 2011 at 9:25am

I agree that a certification does not guarantee performance.  However, there should be a minimum level of competency and the RPSGT exam just does not satisfy that.  The entry level credential, the CPSGT, which is very basic and those techs require a great deal of training is still claimed by the AASM to be too hard to pass.  Most good techs actually want the RPSGT to be more focused on actual acquisition and scoring but also to be much more difficult so that it can actually provide a minimum standard of competency. 

 

As for the job responsibilities of sleep techs, we basically do everything for the patient.  We hook the patient up and make sure there is good data.  But we also prepare the info for the doctor.  We look at the test in 30 second length pages and mark sleep stages, arousals, respiratory events, leg movements, snoring, oxygen desaturations, ekg abnormalities, etc.  We write a summary that gives our impression of the study.  If the acquisition tech is good, the scoring tech is good, the physician only spends about 5 minutes writing a report.  The physician's report typically is just a repeat of the tech's summary.  Then the physician signs it and perhaps adds a few comments or instructions.  He basically gives the tech's work his approval.  Some physicians are much more involved but the vast majority operate this way.   Of course only a physician can interpret how the findings affect the particular patient and correlate clinically, but whether or not your sleep study is good depends very much on the ability of your sleep tech and not whether or not he has a good personality. 

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Permalink Reply by D. W. Conn on January 22, 2011 at 11:07pm

I am a technologist {RPSGT) not and MD just to clarify

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Permalink Reply by D. W. Conn on January 22, 2011 at 11:14pm

If the AASM devlopes this credential I will take the exam.

I think a better use of the Credential would be for the BRPT to have levels of testing such as a certification for Recording, paping credential, and of course a credential for scoring. The final credential for scoring not offered until the technologist has worked a total of 5 years of night work.

I have been working 20 plus years in the field and get overwelmed at times. This just sends me back to the books and asking tons of questions. We have too many self appointed GURUs in the field and not enough professionals.

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Permalink Reply by randy townsend on January 24, 2011 at 2:11am

Hey Rock, we are all entitled to our opinion however, I prefer factual statements over half truths and beliefs based upon one's personal delusions.

 

You stated the BRPT solicited you for money. I say that's a crock. The BRPT isn't a membership organization requiring or requesting any type of annual funding.

 

You stated you have no contact with them. I say that's a crock. They send out quarterly newletters entitled "The Insider" which contains pertainate information relavent to the sleep medicine field and typically list their activites conducted. If you are not receiving these e-mails I suggest you visit www.brpt.org and update your personal contact information.

 

You stated the BRPT did not help you with your resume...really? I mean really? You want them to put the food on the spoon, make airplane sounds while it "flies" into your mouth?

 

You stated they didn't help you negotiate a salary? The BRPT is not a union...please refer back to the no membership fee statement.

 

You state "to your knowledge". Unfortunately, it is obvious you have limited knowledge of your environment and the field you work in. You should take the time to enlighten yourself. Stop waiting for everyone to do it for you.

 

I would suggest you go to the BRPT website and read. Answer your own question about what they are doing for you.

 

Are you referencing the meeting in Denver when you say "so called" leadership meeting? I don't think you were there. I have a list of the meeting attendees, your name isn't on it.

 

I think that statement, and your entire note is just another crock...from Rock.

 

Pathetic. 

Rock Hinkle said:

Randy,

 

I agree that sleep lacks leadership. That leadership is supposed to come from the BRPT, AASM,  and the AAST. I can't say much about the AAST as I have very limited experience with them. They did solicit me for a $100 membership fee not long after I received my registry. The BRPT has also only contacted me to solicit money. I highly doubt that the AASM knows that myself or any other tech exist.

 

You say that the BRPT represents me. How? Short of the check I sent them and the congratulatory letter I have had no contact from them. I have no say in who gets elected. Not one board member represents the working class tech. To my knowledge they have never supported state licensure in any state. In the so called "leadership" meeting they made it clear to amny of us that they represented the revenue or management side of sleep.No one from the BRPT came to help me with my resume, or even negotiate my compensation. To my knowledge the none of the above mentioned acronyms have done anything to even ensure pay or benefits in this industry. Other than pay an outside management company to do their job what exactly does the BRPT do? $450 a test is alot of money Randy.

 

What have they done for me or my peers? Please tell me. The response letter from the BRPT to the AASM made it very clear who they have been working for during the last year. It was not me or you.

 

Please give me a reason to support them.

randy townsend said:

Good luck to the BRPT.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on January 25, 2011 at 11:31am

new communication yesterday from Janice East, BRPT President -- I feel as if some of this is in direct response to the messages posted here by Rock, Amy, Randy, D.W. and others:

 

Stronger Than Ever

Over the past week, BRPT shared information with you regarding the AASM’s decision to develop a sleep technologist exam. I have truly been energized by the passionate responses and thoughtful insights from so many of you. I appreciate the phone calls, emails and postings to the BRPT message board and other locations.

Several important themes came across in your messages – too many to recount in a single blog entry. But the comments that have encouraged me the most have been those detailing your steadfast devotion to your patients and your deep concern for their care; the pride you have in your profession, writ large, and in the duties you carry out each day; and, the great sense of achievement and accomplishment you share for the RPSGT credential.

Here’s what some of you have said regarding the development of a new certification exam, how you feel about your credential and what you think would benefit our profession:
• The patients are the ones that will ultimately pay the price.

• This will affect patient care and proper diagnosis.

• I thought we were all on the same side to help improve the quality of patients’ lives.

• Having several different credentials will only cause confusion and destabilize our profession.

 • The problem lies in education.

• We need quality training programs for people entering the field.

• I felt a sense of pride and accomplishment when recently passing the RPSGT exam. This [development] feels like a slap in the face.

• I take great pride in my hard work over the years and the time and effort I put into my profession.

 • Those of us who pass and become registered have achieved something special and are proud of what we have accomplished.

There is one other point I’d like to address here. Many of you rightfully questioned why the BRPT and the AASM can’t work together to unite – not divide – the profession. We’re asking the same question. I’ve already noted the genesis and development of the CPSGT exam as one example where we thought we were collaborating and responding to their concerns. But in addition, we’ve had several meetings over the last couple of years with AASM and AAST leadership – most recently in September 2010 at the AASM headquarters. We thought the meeting was open and collaborative and underscored the shared commitment of our organizations to working together to strengthen the profession. We were mistaken.

We stand now, more than ever, committed to a strong credentialing program for our field. The RPSGT credential will remain the highest level of achievement for technologists in sleep medicine. You should be proud of what you have accomplished and the good work you do each day.

Thank you for your comments, suggestions, and words of wisdom. Please continue to make your voices heard by reaching out to us, the AASM, AAST and other professional organizations to which you belong. 

Janice East, RPSGT, R. EEG T.BRPT President

 

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on January 27, 2011 at 4:25am

No Randy I was not at the symposium in Denver despite being in that very city. Due to my family situation I could not afford the $300 price tag. After listening to many of the techs in our industry I came to the conclusion that this particular meeting would be a waist of my time and money. You may not know that this is the opinion of many in the sleep community concerning the BRPT. I did however receive the minutes via the data storage devices that were handed out. Off this I was able to determine that I had made the right decision. I personally know of 5 different techs from different regions that walked out of the meeting prior to it's completion.  

 

"You stated the BRPT solicited you for money. I say that's a crock. The BRPT isn't a membership organization requiring or requesting any type of annual funding."

 

If they are not a membership organization then what are they? Does all that the RPSGT credential stand for is that I was able to pass a test? Am I not a part of particular group? A group started by the BRPT.

 

"You stated you have no contact with them. I say that's a crock. They send out quarterly newletters entitled "The Insider" which contains pertainate information relavent to the sleep medicine field and typically list their activites conducted. If you are not receiving these e-mails I suggest you visit www.brpt.org and update your personal contact information."

 

Yes they do send out emails every now and then. I have had plenty on the CPSGT credential, and the new already watered down test. Yep I said it! Mostly I got invitations to spend the $300 plus at the symposium in Denver. If that's not soliciting I don't know what is. I have read the info at all 3 national sleep sites. Well all 2 anyway as one does not seem to have an opinion. If I had to base my opinion on the BRPT on the information they had sent me it would be that they right the test. That is all. A test in which no answer key or study material is provided. The AASM actually controls what little study material there is.  

 

"You stated the BRPT did not help you with your resume...really? I mean really? You want them to put the food on the spoon, make airplane sounds while it "flies" into your mouth?"

 

I take it your saying that because the BRPT provided me with the credential they did help me. Your wrong! I sought out the required information to take that test. I studied for countless hours so that I would pass on the first try. I earned those letters. No one gave them to me. I don't consider myself an RPSGT because I passed that test. I am an RPSGT because of what I do for my patients everynight. I am embarressed by the test that I took, and for what is going on in the industry right now. Not so much for me but for the more experienced techs like you.

 

"You state "to your knowledge". Unfortunately, it is obvious you have limited knowledge of your environment and the field you work in. You should take the time to enlighten yourself. Stop waiting for everyone to do it for you.

 

I would suggest you go to the BRPT website and read. Answer your own question about what they are doing for you."

 

You are correct in saying that my knowledge of the political side of sleep is limited. I won't argue that as I have spent the majority of my 3 years in sleep seeking out the education that the BRPT does not provide. When I could not find mentors the members here at SG quizzed me.  I have also spent a great deal of my time providing study packets for those techs coming in behind me. I am also an active member of binary and many of your facebook sleep sites. In my free time I spend time here answering questions.

 

Whats pathetic is sleep politics and the leadership that fuels it. I sought guidance from you and got judgement. Do you hear that Randy? I think another PAPPY MILL just went up on your watch.

 

It is time for a change in this industry. Rooster, Banyon, and jnk were all right. I have been defending the wrong side the whole time.

randy townsend said:

Hey Rock, we are all entitled to our opinion however, I prefer factual statements over half truths and beliefs based upon one's personal delusions.

 

You stated the BRPT solicited you for money. I say that's a crock. The BRPT isn't a membership organization requiring or requesting any type of annual funding.

 

You stated you have no contact with them. I say that's a crock. They send out quarterly newletters entitled "The Insider" which contains pertainate information relavent to the sleep medicine field and typically list their activites conducted. If you are not receiving these e-mails I suggest you visit www.brpt.org and update your personal contact information.

 

You stated the BRPT did not help you with your resume...really? I mean really? You want them to put the food on the spoon, make airplane sounds while it "flies" into your mouth?

 

You stated they didn't help you negotiate a salary? The BRPT is not a union...please refer back to the no membership fee statement.

 

You state "to your knowledge". Unfortunately, it is obvious you have limited knowledge of your environment and the field you work in. You should take the time to enlighten yourself. Stop waiting for everyone to do it for you.

 

I would suggest you go to the BRPT website and read. Answer your own question about what they are doing for you.

 

Are you referencing the meeting in Denver when you say "so called" leadership meeting? I don't think you were there. I have a list of the meeting attendees, your name isn't on it.

 

I think that statement, and your entire note is just another crock...from Rock.

 

Pathetic. 

Rock Hinkle said:

Randy,

 

I agree that sleep lacks leadership. That leadership is supposed to come from the BRPT, AASM,  and the AAST. I can't say much about the AAST as I have very limited experience with them. They did solicit me for a $100 membership fee not long after I received my registry. The BRPT has also only contacted me to solicit money. I highly doubt that the AASM knows that myself or any other tech exist.

 

You say that the BRPT represents me. How? Short of the check I sent them and the congratulatory letter I have had no contact from them. I have no say in who gets elected. Not one board member represents the working class tech. To my knowledge they have never supported state licensure in any state. In the so called "leadership" meeting they made it clear to amny of us that they represented the revenue or management side of sleep.No one from the BRPT came to help me with my resume, or even negotiate my compensation. To my knowledge the none of the above mentioned acronyms have done anything to even ensure pay or benefits in this industry. Other than pay an outside management company to do their job what exactly does the BRPT do? $450 a test is alot of money Randy.

 

What have they done for me or my peers? Please tell me. The response letter from the BRPT to the AASM made it very clear who they have been working for during the last year. It was not me or you.

 

Please give me a reason to support them.

randy townsend said:

Good luck to the BRPT.

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Permalink Reply by Mike on January 28, 2011 at 12:59pm

new communication from BRPT to RPSGT credential holders:

 

January 28, 2011

To my fellow technologists:

I want to extend a personal word of thanks to each you who have responded quickly and passionately to the announcement of the AASM plan to develop a certification exam for sleep technologists. Your personal messages to me by phone and email, your postings to the BRPT message board, and your interactions on professional social networking sites have been inspiring and energizing.

In this week's posting to my BRPT President's Blog I highlight some of the common themes repeated by BRPT credential holders in response to the AASM plan, including:

• First and foremost, pride in achieving the RPSGT credential and in the work that went in to earning the credential
• A concern that an exam developed with a goal of a high pass rate will inevitably compromise the quality of technologists earning "certification," and will impact the quality of patient care
• An understanding of the need for strong, readily available educational programs leading to a career in polysomnographic technology
• Disappointment that AASM has chosen to take a step which will have a divisive effect on our field, instead of supporting the CPSGT exam and the tiered credentialing program they urged BRPT to develop and implement
• Puzzlement regarding the position of AAST – the professional organization representing sleep technologists – with regard to development of a new certification exam through a physicians' organization

I'm pleased to say that BRPT received a response Tuesday from ABSM President Dr. Nathaniel Watson. Unfortunately, the letter simply reaffirmed the ABSM decision to develop a new exam and did not respond to the issues we raised. It also shed no more light on whether ABSM has data to support its assertion that "sleep physicians who are medical directors of sleep centers have expressed concern that certification by the BRPT does not ensure professional readiness." ABSM also released a public statement on Tuesday that was surprising to me. It said that the proposed new exam "does not have a stated goal of producing a high pass rate," even though the AASM has repeatedly asked BRPT in formal correspondence and conversations to lower the passing score for the current exam and mentioned its concern with the passing rate in the second paragraph of its December 17 letter to BRPT. The statement also suggested that BRPT credential holders could be "grandfathered" into the new credential, even though ABSM has publicly questioned the "readiness" of BRPT-credentialed technologists.

We have posted these two documents at www.brpt.org and encourage you to read them. It is also critically important that you join in and remain active in this conversation. Here are some ways you can help:

• If you are an AASM or AAST member post your comments on the AASM or AAST message boards, available on their websites: www.aasmnet.org and www.aastweb.org.
• Make certain the leadership of each organization is aware of your concerns. Each organization lists current officers and directors on their website.
• Engage your fellow technologists. Emphasize to them the importance of speaking out – actively and often – on behalf of their credential.
• Engage your medical directors. Make certain they are aware of this development and aware of your concerns.
• Join the conversations developing on industry and professional social networking sites.
• Send us a statement we can share with your fellow technologists. We will be incorporating RPGST and CPSGT comments into a variety of print and online materials. Send a comment you would like share toinfo@brpt.org. (Note: If you wish to remain anonymous and be identified only by your city, please indicate that in the message.)
• Monitor the BRPT message board. Post and respond.

You have a right – and a responsibility – to speak out in support of the credential you have achieved and which you carry with pride, and to speak out on behalf of your profession. In the coming weeks we will be building out a credential holders' resource center on www.brpt.org specifically geared to responding to the development of a physician-driven exam for sleep technologists. In the meantime, I will be reaching out to you periodically with informational updates. This conversation is just beginning. Please stay informed and stay engaged.

Sincerely, 

Janice East, RPSGT, R. EEG T. 
President

 

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on January 28, 2011 at 10:17pm

Thanks jnk with your support I will continue to fight the good fight.

j n k said:

Rock, as long as you defend the patients, you are on "the right side," IMO. And you do.

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Permalink Reply by D. W. Conn on January 29, 2011 at 9:27pm

i remember way back in the day being a member of thr former APT it was and awful association. We felt they were selling us out to the RT's...not sure I am ready to trust the AAST or AASM......and no I am not going to argue RT vs RPSGT just to be clear.

j n k said:

On the other hand . . .

 

I think that if I were a tech, I would be careful to make sure I was backing the winning team on this one.

 

If the AASM is sleep medicine's equivalent to city hall, I might think twice before fighting them.

 

Just my opinion. Nothing more.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on January 30, 2011 at 3:21am

I am not sure if it is a fight as much as it is a conflict of interest jnk. The AASM is a physician organization. The agenda of the docs may not always be in the best interest of the techs and vice versa.

 

The way I see it this is an accreditation problem. The AASM and medicare have made it a requirement to have certified techs run studies. The sleep docs are saying that the test is to hard for their techs to pass. These same docs are responsible for their labs training programs. They are also the same docs responsible for educating you. Need I say more?

 

Sleep leadership has failed us all jnk. The system is broken and guerrilla glue won't fix it.

j n k said:

I am not suggesting trusting anybody. But I would hesitate to fight them, or to take a vocal stand against them. It might come back to bite someone if they threw a fit, sent letters, posted against them, etc. That kind of stuff has a way of showing up when one applies for a job somewhere else down the road.

 

D. W. Conn said:

..not sure I am ready to trust the AAST or AASM.

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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on January 30, 2011 at 7:57am

I am glad that the doc I work for does not believe the way that you do jnk. I wouldn't give up my job without a fight anyway.

 

I am also hearing that nurses may soon be doing the job of the RT. Obamacare ya know.

j n k said:

I hear ya, Rock.

 

But it seems to me that in the case of PSGs, the sleep docs and lab managers are fully (or at least, mostly) in charge of the details of how the studies get done in their individual labs. So the docs and managers don't want techs to have a credential that gives the techs any authority to dictate to docs and managers.

 

That makes things very different, in my opinion, from the credentials of an RRT. In that realm of work, a doc will step aside for the RRT to take charge and assert authority over the life and well-being of a patient and how things get done with machines that breathe for that patient.

 

In practice, that means a doc wants, and respects, an assertive RRT, but wants and respects only a compliant, nonassertive tech for sleep tests.

 

That is why, to me, although RRTs may have a reason to band together to protect their turf and would be respected by docs for doing so, that is not so much the case with sleep techs. Until the day comes when doctors are ready to hand over ultimate authority for how PSGs are conducted in the labs they oversee, so that the techs tell the docs what is what, a tech who wants to keep his or her job will be more interested in doing what docs tell him to do than being interested in seeming to argue against the direction the AASM has chosen.

 

I could be very wrong about all of that. I am only a patient. But I do think techs need to understand how their role differs from RRTs and even RNs. A tech needs to be good and to know his or her stuff, and the more the tech knows about the details of how sleep studies are performed, the better that tech can be at filling the role of a sleep tech. Sure. But when the larger threats to sleep labs are coming from home studies and the like, the priority of the AASM is not going to be the preservation of sleep techs. And unfortunately, sleep techs aren't going to have too large of a voice in how things go. Accepting that reality is better than proceeding as if the reality were otherwise. Reality has a way of asserting itself. Simplifying and consolidating things in the face of competitive threats makes more sense to the AASM than further dividing what remains of the pie. 

Rock Hinkle said:

I am not sure if it is a fight as much as it is a conflict of interest jnk. The AASM is a physician organization. The agenda of the docs may not always be in the best interest of the techs and vice versa.

 

The way I see it this is an accreditation problem. The AASM and medicare have made it a requirement to have certified techs run studies. The sleep docs are saying that the test is to hard for their techs to pass. These same docs are responsible for their labs training programs. They are also the same docs responsible for educating you. Need I say more?

 

Sleep leadership has failed us all jnk. The system is broken and guerrilla glue won't fix it.

j n k said:

I am not suggesting trusting anybody. But I would hesitate to fight them, or to take a vocal stand against them. It might come back to bite someone if they threw a fit, sent letters, posted against them, etc. That kind of stuff has a way of showing up when one applies for a job somewhere else down the road.

 

D. W. Conn said:

..not sure I am ready to trust the AAST or AASM.

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