Apnea versus Hypopnea

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Permalink Reply by 99 on November 6, 2009 at 2:22pm

i may be talking rubbish here and this is my analitical take on it
1 apnea is a cessation of breath for at least 5 seconds

the word hypo means below

that would make hyponea less than 5 seconds

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Permalink Reply by 99 on November 6, 2009 at 2:45pm

i may be talking rubbish here but this my anylitical take on it
apnea is a cessation of breath for X amount of seconds

hypo means below or underneath

so hyponea must be less than X seconds

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Permalink Reply by Rock Hinkle on November 6, 2009 at 3:33pm

I thought this was a movie like Godzilla vs Hydra.

An apnea is a total cessation in breathing lasting at least 10 seconds in duration. A hypopnea is a 40-50% decrease in airflow also lasting at least 10 seconds in duration. Both are airflow limitation.

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Permalink Reply by Jan on November 6, 2009 at 3:37pm

thanks!

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Permalink Reply by 99 on November 6, 2009 at 3:56pm

thanks for the clarity rock

Rock Hinkle said:

I thought this was a movie like Godzilla vs Hydra.

An apnea is a total cessation in breathing lasting at least 10 seconds in duration. A hypopnea is a 40-50% decrease in airflow also lasting at least 10 seconds in duration. Both are airflow limitation.

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Permalink Reply by j n k on November 6, 2009 at 4:53pm

The definitions change according to context, from what I've experienced.

A sleep doc speaks in generalities; I think of it as "doc-speak." Sleep techs use a much more precise definition when scoring sleep studies, "tech-speak." Home machines use other definitions, "machine-speak." And home machines not only define the events differently from docs and techs--they define the events differently one machine brand from another! So it is very important, in my opinion, to notice whether a discussion is about generalities, about scoring studies, or about interpreting home-machine data.

How's that for cloudying the issue?

jeff

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Permalink Reply by Jan on November 6, 2009 at 5:19pm

I was looking at the detailed data from my respironics auto bipap and noticed that for a few recent (self-titrated) nights I had .7 OA and 1.1 H for a total AHI of 1.8 or even lower on another night:-) This is down from 8.1, 3.6 and 4.1 AHI from earlier in the week, before I really dug in and tried to figure these settings out. (seeing my doctor in two weeks, but didn't want to wait that long to try and get these numbers under better control) Anyway-- I was just trying to figure out what the OA's versus H's were and trying to understand what that might mean for my health. That's when I looked up the definition on the SG FAQ's and posed the question to the group at large. Though, while I have some good definitions now, I still am not sure about the health impact. I presume that the OA number is more significant?

In looking at this bipap data for the first time, I was also surprised to see that OA's happen on exhalation and Hypopnea's in inhalation? I always thought that the apneas happened when you were trying to draw a breath in...

Someday I will find someone with a plastic model of a head/tongue etc and moving parts to really show me what is happening physically during all of this stuff. In the meantime, I will try to fill in the blanks with all of the great info that I am getting from the folks here on SG.

With much thanks,
Jan

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Permalink Reply by Rock Hinkle on November 6, 2009 at 8:05pm

Machine talk and tech talk are basically the same thing. The different manufacturers use a variant of the same rules that the techs use.

j n k said:

The definitions change according to context, from what I've experienced.

A sleep doc speaks in generalities; I think of it as "doc-speak." Sleep techs use a much more precise definition when scoring sleep studies, "tech-speak." Home machines use other definitions, "machine-speak." And home machines not only define the events differently from docs and techs--they define the events differently one machine brand from another! So it is very important, in my opinion, to notice whether a discussion is about generalities, about scoring studies, or about interpreting home-machine data.

How's that for cloudying the issue?

jeff

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Permalink Reply by j n k on November 6, 2009 at 8:59pm

My machine doesn't talk like this (click the word "Answer" on the following page to read some tech-speak):

http://www.thoracic.org/sections/education/sleep-fragments/quiz/apn...

Rock Hinkle said:

Machine talk and tech talk are basically the same thing. The different manufacturers use a variant of the same rules that the techs use.

j n k said:

The definitions change according to context, from what I've experienced.

A sleep doc speaks in generalities; I think of it as "doc-speak." Sleep techs use a much more precise definition when scoring sleep studies, "tech-speak." Home machines use other definitions, "machine-speak." And home machines not only define the events differently from docs and techs--they define the events differently one machine brand from another! So it is very important, in my opinion, to notice whether a discussion is about generalities, about scoring studies, or about interpreting home-machine data.

How's that for cloudying the issue?

jeff

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Permalink Reply by j n k on November 6, 2009 at 9:21pm

Here is machine-speak. The clinical guide for my machine (a ResMed) states this:

"The AHI values reported . . . should be viewed as trending information only . . . The AHI reported . . . may be higher than the AHI determined by polygraphy scoring since the [machine] cannot detect the sleep state or the presence of arousals, nor does it incorporate SpO2 measurements into the AHI calculation."

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Permalink Reply by Rock Hinkle on November 6, 2009 at 11:15pm

Both are plain English to me jnk. LOL

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Permalink Reply by Jan on November 7, 2009 at 9:35am

Jeff, I was wondering about what you wrote above earlier this morning. For example, I know that I spent an hour or two awake at various times in the middle of the night last night and the night before. I presume that there is no way for the machine to know that...and since I don't have apneas while I am awake with the mask on, this would bring the average for the night down. ie. if I was in bed with the mask on for 8 hours but really only slept for 6 hours--it is possible that my AHI is actually 25% higher. (I understand events are not evenly distributed, just using this for an example)

Correct?

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