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what is the danger of falling to sleep with out CPAP ?
I'd like to know the danger of falling a sleep with out my CPAP on ? I do this quite offten. At times I awake gasping for breath,feel like I've been running,asking God please don't let me die.
Most of the time if I don't have it on I sleep o.k.
Please let me know the danger. Thanks
Views: 4309
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Teresa Hoehn on
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Let me say right off, I am not a phsysician. I am an RRT, RPSGT with 20 year experience. I love my work with sleep patients because I see such a change in peoples lives.
Ok, I'll try and get to your issues with root cause and not disagree totally with you. You say "No where have you seen COD being OSA". I have had several people come to me and state there father died of OSA and they were told this by there physician. OSA can be the root cause for many problems. Thist is how the medical professionals have come up with the conditions associated with OSA, Including heart disease. Now the root cause of the OSA is another issue all together (this can get like a spider web of problems).
Weight and anatomical issues can be the root cause for the OSA. The problem is that medical issues should make us take actions that can improve the situation so we can deal with the root cause. The idea of breaking a cycle to get to the root cause is sometimes as important as the root cause itself.
If weight is the root cause then the person needs to have the energy to fix the problem. OSA and weight gain are a cycle that is hard to break. The fatigue the patient has from lack of sleep is enough to make it hard to do anything. If someone starts therapy then there energy level will improve and the person at least has a chance at getting the weight off. Now this of course is a choice.
In the case of anatomical problems surgery has not shown significant improvement in more then 50% of surgical cases (from all of the studies I have read) and CPAP can be the alternative to surgery, which can be costly and painful. I have professional had severe sleep apnea pateints have surgery, come back for another diagnostic Polysomnography to see if they still have OSA and they be just as bad or just a little better (little better can be good if they need less pressure with their CPAP therapy) as before the surgery.
My point is this, root cause is the best way to treat anyone, but only if the person is willing to make the change. At least with CPAP therapy you are not causing another medical problem such as liver damage or stomach problems from taking a pill. I would rather help someone with a little air to make a difference.
I want to address your question about the divers. Well number one divers are usually very fit with good lungs that have great purfusion. They also do not dive everyday 20 plus times a day.(They also probably have good sleep and are not exhausted from lack of sleep) Their oxygen level may drop some, but more then likely it is not anywhere close to the levels of an OSA patient. Decrease in oxygen levels can contribute to all of the issues I listed in my last post.
I kind of like these discussions. As long as everyone is not stressed by my opionon. (legal disclaimer try and protect myself at all cost). By the way what is your background you sound like you a physician from your posting.
Teresa
richard rydza said:Just to be clear professionally, I never heard of heart disease being a complication of OSA??? Never seen it on a COD, never read it in any medical book or paper. The facts states that heart disease comes first OSA is a complication of a more serious issue in all cases. OSA if it is obstructive is just that, obstructive. The root cause is not the OSA but it is the muscles, brain wave functions that controls the muscles, the narrowing of the esophogus, all these are the first trigger. The first trigger may also be weight gain, fatty tissue build up in the esophogus, large neck circumfrance. These are the first triggers or the root causes you cannot have OSA without these occurring first. Again think, work on the root cause, correct the root casue and you can throw your CPAP away. I ask the question again, why do swimmers who hold thier breaths for more than a minute at time not have the same medical issues as those diagnosed with sleep apnea? Becasue they are not dignosed with any other underlying medical conditions. I am not saying do not wear your Cpap if it helps. I am saying it appears to be the underlying medical conditions have not been resolved that are causing the sleep apnea.
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for me Iam not on any device, but my sleep test showed in 8hrs of sleep I stopped breathing 44x for 10sec. ea. of those 44x. the danger for me with no device is I could stop breathing altogather.. but I can't sleep more than 2-3hrs. at a time, and yes I do wake myself up from gaspping for air.. so Iam up for 1.5hr. then sleep another 2-3, goes like this all day, by 2pm I must nap due to am exhausted. hope this helps u alittle.
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Jeff,
I love this response the best of all. I was trying to reason with this man, but your way of responding was much better. Keep up the great work.
This forum is suppose to be way to get help for treatment with OSA. Not to try and derail everything that the medical community has done to help those with sleep apnea.
Teresa
j n k said:I believe that comparing holding one's breath while swimming to clinically significant obstructive sleep apnea is, at best, laughable, and, at worst, highly misleading. And arguing a chicken-egg problem about "root cause" is at best, pointless, and at worst, highly misleading.
Many obese people got that way from the OSA, not the other way around. Many who lose the weight continue to have OSA. Some get worse after weight loss. I have a feeling you know that but are choosing to ignore it in order to make silly arguments to mislead people. But that is just my opinion.
My question to you is: What is the root cause of your continuing to argue that the most significant issue is the root cause? Do you believe that breathing and sleeping are unimportant? Would you stand over a patient who was bleeding out from an obvious external wound and argue that one should not stop the hemorrhage because the most important thing is to find what caused the wound? The reason they need the blood to stay inside them is so they can continue to get oxygen to their tissues. That's the same reason sleeping people need to be able to breathe.
Please. Do some basic research. Learn a few facts. And I would ask that you not act like you are asking questions in good faith while you are obviously not wanting answers to your questions but are pursuing a detrimental agenda.
Not here, where people are trying to get help. Please.
jeff
richard rydza said:Just to be clear professionally, I never heard of heart disease being a complication of OSA??? Never seen it on a COD, never read it in any medical book or paper. The facts states that heart disease comes first OSA is a complication of a more serious issue in all cases. OSA if it is obstructive is just that, obstructive. The root cause is not the OSA but it is the muscles, brain wave functions that controls the muscles, the narrowing of the esophogus, all these are the first trigger. The first trigger may also be weight gain, fatty tissue build up in the esophogus, large neck circumfrance. These are the first triggers or the root causes you cannot have OSA without these occurring first. Again think, work on the root cause, correct the root casue and you can throw your CPAP away. I ask the question again, why do swimmers who hold thier breaths for more than a minute at time not have the same medical issues as those diagnosed with sleep apnea? Becasue they are not dignosed with any other underlying medical conditions. I am not saying do not wear your Cpap if it helps. I am saying it appears to be the underlying medical conditions have not been resolved that are causing the sleep apnea.
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Permalink Reply by 99 on
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the way things are worded are if you do not believe me you must be an idiot
idiot or not half truths are very unhelpful for the genuine seeker to solve some problems including sleep apnea problems
i miss another problem that osa may progess to csa
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it is like say the police are always around when a burguary takes place hence the police must be the burgular
very unlikely but possible
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Permalink Reply by Mary Z on
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richard,please do tell us what your professional standing is. Are you a doctor? What is your specialty? While I certainly don't disagree with everything you say, I do know we don't breathe through our esophagus and if we try to use aur airway to swallow food we probably will need a heimlich maneuver. You speak with such authority that I think it's only fair that you come right out and tell us what your qualifications are. You speak of diagnosing patients....
By the way, I am a RN with a BSN from Old Dominion University and a Certified Nephrology Nurse.
Thanks,
Mary Z.
richard rydza said:Just to be clear professionally
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Permalink Reply by amott1973 on
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Well one of the risks of falling asleep without your cpap is not ever waking up. It just recently happened to a friend of ours and it was horrible for his wife who found him dead in bed beside her that morning.
If you have gone through all the trouble to get diagnosed and get the equipment, then I hope you'll use it. If you're having trouble with it for some reason, like the mask is uncomfortable, or something, please seek assistance from your sleep doc, Medical equipment provider or support group (like this one) to work through those problems.
It's just not worth the risk!
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I also think, though I would have and in fact did fight this before, that there are times one must lay off for a while. My nose got so bad I was at risk for a bad infection, if not actual necrosis similar to a bedsore. I had broken areas and a very red and swollen nose. My roommate finally put her foot down and a call to the doc's office and my DME confirmed that I needed to let my nose heal. It's been tough, but I'm almost healed, have a new mask and ideas about two other full face masks that cover the whole face and don't rest on the bridge of the nose. I'll be glad to start back with my cpap in another day or two with a well padded nose and a different mask.
Mary Z.
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Permalink Reply by Claire A. Murray on
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I think Amy's response is very common-sense and hugely responsible! Thank you Amy. It just makes sense, but as we all have heard, "Common sense isn't very common." (Will Rogers)
I do briefly nap without the CPAP when I get home because I am not in the severe respiratory distress that our original poster seems to be. But I am a "power napper" and can take a 10-20 minute nap and feel refreshed for hours. I never go to sleep at night without it. And if I think I'm going to need a long nap on the weekend, I'll put it on to get the best out of my longer nap.
Claire
Amy said:Okay here is all I can say. With my patients when I was doing homecare I would have them do a major no no if they were like you and fell asleep without the cpap too often. I would have them put it on at the beginning of the news or david letterman and watch tv with it on. What you will find is that the sleepinees decreases the more you use it. If your problem is that you come home from work and fall asleep in the recliner I had them take twenty minutes ( we had an alarm clock set or a timer with a loud bell) with the cpap when they got home this allowed them to be refreshed and enjoy the rest of the night.
As to the danger everyone has said it quite well.
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Permalink Reply by RockRpsgt on
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"For those who state that heart disease, hypertension, weight gain, strokes, fatigue, obesity, gasping for breath, depression, cardiac arrythmias, swelling of hands and feet is caused by sleep apnea are mis-spoken and there are no valid studies suggesting such that I am aware of. If there are by a reputable medical society, or group, please forward the web page to me. Be careful of web sites that are not reputable or have no connection with medical affiliations."
Really Richard! Would you call Pubmed one of those not reputable sites with no medical affilations?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
These are conclusions from individual studies performed in the last 10 years.
CONCLUSION: Obstructive sleep apnea increases the risk of coronary events or death from cardiovascular causes.
"Sudden cardiac death appears to be more prevalent during the normal sleeping hours in obstructive sleep apnoea (OSA) patients compared with the general population as well as to cardiovascular disease patients."
"These data support that arousals produce quite marked and differential cardiac conduction system activation in OSA and that the degree and pattern of activation may be partly influenced by the presence and severity of preceding respiratory events"
"Sleep-disordered breathing, and particularly the highly prevalent obstructive sleep apnea syndrome, is a multicomponent disorder combining intermittent hypoxia (IH), sleep fragmentation, and obstructed respiratory efforts. It is frequently associated with comorbidities and LEADS to numerous complications, including cardiovascular consequences that are conditioned by genetic predisposition and environment."
"The evidence of sleep apnea as a causal mechanism in cardiovascular disease is strong and increasing."
Can you explain why so many of asian decent are afflicted with apnea despite not having weight problems?
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To date I believe that there has been only one death that could be directly attributed to Apnea. this pt died at iowa University hospital under the care of Dr. Mark Dyken. I have seen the video of the PSG with my own eyes. The only way to 100% diagnose a death of apnea is to have the pt hooked up to a PSG at the time of death. Since most people do not know when they are going to die this becomes problematic in blaiming apnea as the direct cause of. If a person dies in there sleep more than likely it was due to a complication of their sleep.
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Permalink Reply by Mack D Jones, MD, SAAN on
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Rock, you didn't complete your last sentence, "If a person dies in there sleep more than likely it was due to a complication of their sleep, most likely sleep apnea."
There is the case of the patient who was being recorded in the laboratory years ago who was witnessed to have apnea that resulted in death. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have died in their sleep as a direct result of sleep apnea not recorded in a laboratory.
Most sudden cardiac arrest at night is the result of sleep apnea. Most heart attacks at night are the result of sleep apnea. Reggie White, retired football Hall of Famer, for example, is one of those victims.
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