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Steven B. Ronsen updated their profile
Sep 15, 2018

One PAPper's Review of the ProBasics Zzz-Mask

Well, having given up on finding a way to mitigate the problem w/the Resmed Quattro full face mask's flimsy outter cushion cover's sharp edges slicing into the bridge of my nose quite some time ago, I decided since I was due for a new mask to give another full face mask a try.

I had asked about the Respiornics FullLife but my provider didn't have any in stock and whilst they would have ordered if I insisted they were willing to let me try any of the full face they had in stock in my size and exchange at no cost those I wasn't successful with.

Tim suggested the ProBasics Zzz-Mask and it seemed okay w/the initial fitting so I kept it to try for a week. Much like the FullLife it does not have the forehead piece which is a plus in my book since my angle between forehead and bridge of nose just doesn't seem compatible w/most masks that have the rigid brace w/o adjusting capabilities. Besides, I prefer the comfort of the less the better, especially when it comes to weight.

The headgear is WAY TOO LARGE!. The bottom straps meet and the velcro must overlap to fit comfortably. It is designed for the top straps to fit just above the ears. Yeah, right. It can be QUITE uncomfortable to have those straps riding at the crease between ears and skull and if you lay on your side QUITE uncomfortable to have your ear pressing on that strap, especially when there is the double thickness of the strap! Some experimenting allowed for pulling that top strap more to the top of the head which also raised the bottom strap from so low on the back of the head, actually more at the back of the neck. I anticipated that the bottom strap at the back of the neck was going to be uncomfortable so raising the top strap to the top of my head alleviated that as well.

I wasn't too impressed the first few minutes last night. There was a most definite rise and fall w/every inhaltation/exhaltion. Hell's belles, it was like using my VPAP Auto in spontaneous mode almost!!! Only mask pumping up and down instead of an abrupt "puff" between IPAP and EPAP. Very distracting and irritating. But eventually that ceased and I was able to fall asleep. And sleep I did for a solid 4 hours and 15 minutes. And then I woke up. I have no idea why. Except - my mouth and lips were drier than a burnt boot and when I looked at the data on my LCD screen!

AI 6.5 - HI 19.7 - AHI 26.2 and Leak rate 1.2 median, 4.8 for the 95th percentile and 9.6 maximum. Which just goes to show you that the old-timers at cpaptalk are CORRECT, Leak DOES matter!!! Obviously my pressure settings are way too high when using a full face mask.

But back to the Zzz-Mask: It was a good fit as far as sealing, there just was no problem w/seal that I was aware of and most certainly not according to the data. Once the "pumping" stopped and I got the straps adjusted correctly (I will probably have to cut the top straps and velcro them and most likely the bottom ones too) I rather like this full face mask.

No problem at the bridge of the nose. Very little problem w/leak around the eye which I am VERY sensitive to and will NOT tolerate. It was quite easy to eliminate that leak quickly and occurred only when first fitting the mask when I went to bed and 1-2 times during the last 4 hours of the night when I didn't sleep as uninterrupted as the first half of the night. AND for the FIRST time in YEARS I didn't even need to make a bathroom trip when I woke up during the night! Nor was there any big rush to the bathroom when I got up this morning!!!!

However, I may well have to pack my H3i away and dig out my trusty F&P HC 100 stand alone heated humidifier because my H3i was almost bone dry this morning after 8 hours and 13 minutes of sleep. The last 4 hours were quite interrupted sleep and yet I still feel rested this morning. Tho, heaven knows what this afternoon will bring!!!

I'm thinking of dropping my pressure settings to EPAP 5 and PS 5 and am undecided on the IPAP setting. Maybe 13 IPAP.

One thing to its DEFINITE DETRIMENT! The strap clips. They are flimsy. And ProBasics MUST be aware of that because they provide an extra set w/the mask. I HATE THEM! I found them difficult to use. Maybe because I am NOT used to using a strap clip. I'm used to just "doing" and "undoing" one bottom strap velcro strip.

We shall see what the rest of the week brings w/this mask but overall I THINK I am going to like it once the headgear and strap clips and I come to a meeting of the minds. Obviously I can't start in w/my trusty scissors and velcro until I know whether I want to keep this mask or not.

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Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 9:38pm
http://www.resmed.com/assets/documents/service_support/mask_technical_specs/1013116_masks-tech-specs_glo_eng.pdf

http://www.resmed.com/assets/documents/service_support/mask_technical_specs/1013116_masks-tech-specs_glo_eng.pdf
Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 9:37pm
God bless jnk! He found these for me.



and

Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 9:32pm
Pooh. I'm tired. I'm not changing anything but the Mask Selection tonight. I'll use the Ultra Mask Selection. 95ht percentile pressure has been running 10.4. For 10 cms the AVR for the Zzz-Mask is about 32 L/M and the Ultra AVR at 10 cms is about 38 L/M. We shall see what happens w/this one change.

Gotta be at the imaging center tomorrow bright and early for an abdominal CT scan so I'm gonna hit the hay. I'm gonna start glowing in the dark any night now. Sweet dreams and restful sleep to all!!!!!
Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 7:49pm
I know we can usually ignore Resmed's admonishment to not use any but a Resmed mask. But in this case, the Zzz-Mask has the old full face mask style w/a one way valve. So if the Ultra Mirage doesn't have a one way valve then it becomes a matter of comparing the Ultra Mirage and Quattro's allowed vent rates to the Zzz-Masks.

I'm getting a reported Leak rate of 0.0 to 10.8 L/M which equates to an actual Leak rate of 24 to 34.8 L/M given the Standard Mask Selection w/the Zzz-Mask - BUT my AHI is outta sight!!!! AI 11.3 and AHI 26.4. Whereas I had a higher reported Leak rate w/the Simplicity but MUCH better AHI and AI. At the SAME pressure setting. The pressure graphs are wonderful. The Events graph is a DISGRACE. And I FEEL one h*ll of a whole lot better than that AHI reports.

Or it is one h*ll of a coincidence that these nodules they just discovered on my thyroid that are NOT palpable and whose only possible or maybe likely symptom of a constant feeling of phlegm or pressure at the center of my throat decided to start becoming symptomatic at the exact same time I started using the Zzz-Mask.

And I so like this Zzz-Mask now that I have the headgear mastered w/a minor fix of velcro along the straps to reduce the headgear straps' constant "stretch-ability". It is so lightweight and comfortable and seals so well. I suppose what I SHOULD do is go back to the Simplicity for one night and see what results I get. At least that would rule in or out the coincidence possibility.

I'm confused on whether to RAISE the EPAP setting, at least, or LOWER it. The Zzz-Mask feels like I'm getting MORE pressure than w/the Simplicity BUT it is comfortable breathing w/both masks.
Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 12:48pm
Ooops! Duh. The above are the nasal masks. There were only 3 full face Resmed masks listed.

Mirage™ Liberty Full Face Mask
• Mirage™ Quattro Full Face Mask
• Ultra Mirage™ Full Face Mask.

I just don't do so well w/the Quattro, never have been able to really make that deep V for the bridge of the nose work for me. That thin outer cushion cover just slices the bridge of my nose.
Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 11:06am
Just shows to go you HOW DANGEROUS A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE CAN BE!
Comment by Judy on October 14, 2009 at 11:02am
It would appear that I may owe ProBasics and PUBLIC APOLOGY!!! The Zzz-Mask full face mask has a one way valve design The one way valve design of the exhalation port is designed to help to minimize CO2 retention.

According to Resmed if using a non-Resmed mask we should use the Standard Mask Selection. But - I did something today I so often preach - READ THE MANUAL!!!!

In VAuto mode, only ResMed masks are compatible for use with the VPAP Auto.

Now I have to go find which Resmed full mask or masks has/have a one way valve design and compare the allowed vent rates to determine WHICH Mask Selection I SHOULD be using!!!

Mirage Vista™ Nasal Mask
• Ultra Mirage™ Nasal Mask
• Ultra Mirage™ II Nasal Mask
• Mirage Activa™ Nasal Mask.
Comment by Judy on October 7, 2009 at 7:49am
Don't put forth any great effort to find this mask, Rock Hinkle. The headgear is impossible to work with. It really needs to be revised for the top straps to lay a little higher on the head and possibly the bottom straps up off the neck more on the back of the skull as well.

I am so disappointed.*sob* This is the FIRST and ONLY mask I've absolutely fallen in love with on first try. Again I slept close to 5 hours altho I had to do some REAL fussing when I first laid down w/that d*mn headgear. The Zzz-Mask headgear tends to pull the lower jaw BACK. Who knows? Maybe THAT accounted for the higher AHIs rather than the pressure. I didn't make the pressure change to allow for the previous night's "first night effect" last night and I got the same results tonight as far as data is concerned and slept just about the same amount of time. I was so refreshed all day yesterday. I feel refreshed this morning after only 5 hours sleep and the lousy data and low leak but - I had no choice but to do something about this headgear.

Unfortunately, I just recently gave away all my extra masks that have been laying around here for months except my Simplicitys. So I stripped the headgear off my original Simplicity to try some lab ratting w/that headgear and the Zzz-Mask. No dice. It semi-worked BUT it also pulled my lower jaw back. I can't take the scissors to the Zzz-Mask headgear or I am stuck keeping it. Besides which I'm not all that confident that even w/scissors and velcro I can make it work or prevent the pushing the lower jaw back..

I don't sleep on my side much as I can't breathe as well on my sides. Even w/my Simplicity I just feel SOB on my sides, yet that first night w/this Zzz-Mask it felt so goooood to sleep on my sides! I could breathe as easily on my sides as I could my back! It was wonderful! I never once felt as good when using the Quattro as I did this Zzz-Mask, the free, easy breathing. These are the only two full face masks I've used. I do know when I used the OptiLife nasal cradle cushion it felt like I was getting more pressure than w/my Simplicity or even the Swift LT for Her (not more 02 like w/the Zzz-Mask, more pressure). So - I'll call my DME later today and we'll try some other full face. *sigh*

Maybe if I hadn't given the other masks away I could have lab ratted one of their headgear for this Zzz-Mask but .... back to mask roulette for a full face mask. *sigh* That first night w/the Zzz-Mask was the best night I've EVER had on xPAP or VPAP. *sniffle*

Oh, yeah, I forgot to add, the ProBasics Zzz-Mask Exhaust Flow Rate table sucks, even more so than most allowed vent rate tables from other manufacturers. It gives therapy pressures at the bottom of the table at 3 cms, 10, 20, 30 and 40 cms rather than the more realistic 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 cms. It would appear to be

15 L/M at 3 cms
30 L/M at 10 cms
42 L/M at 20 cms
58 L/M at 30 cms
63 L/M at 40 cms

Nor does the literature provide the Dead Space Volume and Pressure Drop for the Zzz-Mask like my Respironics Simplicity and Resmed Swift LT literature does.
Comment by RockRpsgt on October 6, 2009 at 10:22am
Judy the FFM eliminates you oral leak. Your nasal mask pressure probably was adjusted to compensate for this. This would explain why the pressure might be too high. I can't really comment on you PS or pressures, but in a lab setting I see good results at a PS of 6. Great review on the mask. I'll have to see if I can get one.

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