Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Peggy B. on March 8, 2011 at 3:14pm

This oil has not harmed your machine? That is my only concern in using something in the machine. 

Vicki Vargerson said:

I put drops of olbas oil in my humidifier and it helps a lot !!

Corinne said:

Hi Ray,

I am having the same problem.  My doctor recommends putting Vick drops in the humidifier which I plan to try.  I'll let you know if it works.

Bests, Corinne

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Permalink Reply by Sandra Ceslowitz on March 8, 2011 at 4:01pm

Yes, Biotene spray or the gel that is like a tooth paste.

Peggy McGalliard said:

Did you use the bioteen spray? I tried that and it did nothing for my problem.

Sandra Ceslowitz said:

I have the same problem using a full face mask.  The two chin straps I tried were so bulky.  I use a mouth spray if I wake up during the night.

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Permalink Reply by Peggy B. on March 8, 2011 at 4:43pm

Thanks, I might give the paste a try. Does it last all night or do you have to "reapply"?

Sandra Ceslowitz said:

Yes, Biotene spray or the gel that is like a tooth paste.

Peggy McGalliard said:

Did you use the bioteen spray? I tried that and it did nothing for my problem.

Sandra Ceslowitz said:

I have the same problem using a full face mask.  The two chin straps I tried were so bulky.  I use a mouth spray if I wake up during the night.

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Permalink Reply by Sandra Ceslowitz on March 8, 2011 at 5:56pm

I haven't reapplied the paste more than once.   But I don't use it regularly.  I guess I;'ve learned to live with the dry mouth.  I put the humidity on to 82% and have a cover for the tubing which prevents condensation of water in the mask.  This was suggested by the physician's assistant at the sleep center.

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Permalink Reply by Don Dodge on March 8, 2011 at 7:06pm

My throat is a little dry every afternoon since I started doing CPAP.  Odd.  It never wakes me up at night.  Maybe I'll try the humidity up one notch, see what happens.

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Permalink Reply by Bob on March 8, 2011 at 7:43pm

Heated humidity is pretty standard these days on all CPAP units.  The problem is that much of the heat and humidity that is generated at your CPAP machine is lost as the air travels down your CPAP tube - often resulting in rainout as well.  The best solution is if you are able to get a CPAP unit with a heated tube.  This allows you to get roughly twice the heat and humity to your nose.  Ideally you want to duplicate the warm moist envirnment of the nose and mouth and if you do, the air will feel much more comfortable and also you will reduce nasal congestion.  When dryer air goes through the nose, you get and increase in nasal congestion and this often results in the mouth leaks that are mentioned below.  Once you treat the reason your mouth leak is occurring which is often nasal congestion, the mouth leak is no longer a problem.

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Permalink Reply by Jo E on March 8, 2011 at 9:14pm

Dry throat, nose and mouth is one of the most irritating problems to deal with in the use of CPAP. The hospital is the WORST place to have to use a CPAP. The air is SOOOOO dry in a hospital! I tried to use my CPAP when I was in for an THA. I had to give up since I had so my dryness that I felt like my nose was about to crack and bleed every morning. I would only sleep about 6 hours and wake up because my humidifier was bone dry I gave up after a few days and slept better without the CPAP. I started using it after I returned home. Thank goodness for all of the surgery I had on my sinuses, nose and throat! I don't need CPAP any longer! And I can breathe more like normal people during the day too!

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Permalink Reply by Adi on March 9, 2011 at 10:04pm

That is exactly what happens.  I will be buying a chin strap shortly.

Mike said:

could it be that you're opening your mouth at night and the pressurized air is escaping through your mouth, causing it to feel very dry?  that's happened to me quite a bit and is a common problem.  i use a chin strap to minimize it.

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Permalink Reply by Adi on March 9, 2011 at 10:06pm

I am really glad to hear that.  I am thinking that I might need throat surgery but am not sure it would really fix the problem,

 

Cheers,

Ray

Jo E said:

Dry throat, nose and mouth is one of the most irritating problems to deal with in the use of CPAP. The hospital is the WORST place to have to use a CPAP. The air is SOOOOO dry in a hospital! I tried to use my CPAP when I was in for an THA. I had to give up since I had so my dryness that I felt like my nose was about to crack and bleed every morning. I would only sleep about 6 hours and wake up because my humidifier was bone dry I gave up after a few days and slept better without the CPAP. I started using it after I returned home. Thank goodness for all of the surgery I had on my sinuses, nose and throat! I don't need CPAP any longer! And I can breathe more like normal people during the day too!

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Permalink Reply by Adi on March 9, 2011 at 10:15pm

Hi this was a very helpful post.  My nose gets stuffed up pretty quickly and I am a mouth breather.  I will try the chin strap method and the neti pot. 

 

My question is why is keeping one's mouth open so bad in terms of not getting the machine's benefit.  It seems to me that air would fill my mouth, and then also keep the throat open.  I can also switch to a nose only CPAP mask.  I am using a full face mask. 

 

Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful.

 

Cheers,
Ray

 

Janknitz said:

If you are breathing through your mouth, you are NOT getting the benefit from your machine--the pressure meant to keep your airway open is escaping out of your mouth! 

 

You need to deal with the nasal congestion. 

First, NEVER  put anything besides distilled water into your humidifier tank.  It could be dangerous to put substances in the tank that are aerosolized and carried directly to your lungs.

 

Second, it's common for the wrong humidifier setting to cause nasal congestion.  Some people find too much humidity can cause congestion, others find the opposite.  Experiment with the settings to find the right setting for yourself.  For some people, it may even be  "passover mode" (water in the tank, but no humidification setting turned on) or NO humidifier. 

 

Third, try to tackle the nasal congestion during the day.  Try a neti pot or saline rinse, oral antihistamine (but AVOID decongestants, spray or oral!) and if your doctor recommends it, a prescription steroid nasal spray.

 

Finally, until you can successfully use your machine without mouth breathing you either need to stop the mouth breathing by taping or using a chin strap (works for some people not all) OR you need a full face or hybrid mask that will still deliver adequate pressure if your mouth is open. 

 

You  MUST deal with the mouth breathing, otherwise your therapy is going right out your mouth and you are still experiencing the physical harm of apnea. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Adi on March 9, 2011 at 10:22pm

Hi John,

 

   Thanks for such a wonderfully complete response.

>You don't mention the mask.  A full face mask almost always requires more humidity than a nasal device.  However, full face masks are often used when nasal devices are tried with a chin strap and a mouth leak persists.  If you need a full face mask for this reason then you need to find a way to fix the humidity issue.

 

I have daisy chained the CPAP with an extra humidifier, so I won't run out of moisture at night.

 

>There are a few people that suffer dryness regardless of what they do.  However, here are the things you can check and fix, if they apply, that may help.

 

1.  Assure that your humidifier is working.  Is the chamber warm? 

Yes

2.  Do you have a mouth leak?  Several things happen with a mouth leak that will cause dryness.  The machine tries to compensate for the leak.  This causes the air to flow through the humidifier faster, and as a result will not pick up as much of the moisture.  Try a chin strap.  If you still have a mouth leak even though the chin strap is tight, then you will require a full face mask.

I am getting a chin strap to keep my mouth closed.

 

3.  Do you have a mask leak?  The same thing happens as with a mouth leak.  Fix the leak.  A different mask may be necessary that doesn't leak with the machine running.  Different masks require different techniques to fix the leak.  Some have straps that help hold the mask in the proper position.  Different type seals can actually work better not tightened as much.  If you have facial hair, the only solution may be to shave.  Remember, you need to have a mask that works with your face.

No, I don't have a leaky mask. I keep it pretty tight.

 

4. Is your machine on the floor?  If it is, get it up to the height of your head.  People who keep their machine on the floor draw in air that is cooler.  The temperature of the air is a direct factor as to how much water the air can hold.  Cooler air is not able to carry as much water as warmer air.  Raising the machine to head level from a cold floor a can raise the temperature of the air going though your machine to take care of the issue.

 

It is on a bed stand next to my head.

 

5.  What is the temperature of the room?  Again as above, the temperature of the air limits the amount of water the air can hold.  When I worked for a DME, I found that most humidity deficit AND rainout issues went away when the patient kept his room 68 degress and higher.  In the sleep lab, I allow the patient to have the temperature to his/her liking.  The ones that keep the room >68 degrees have much less dryness issues, if any, and virtually no rainout issues.

I don't control the temperature of the room as well as I should.  I have a studio in NYC with lots of windows.  I have started closing the blinds fully to moderate the room's dryness.

 

6.  Check the humidifier on your machine.  I just found out last week, that at least one manufacturer has a mode on their humidifiers that limits the heat on the humidifier to prevent rainout.  No matter how high you turn up the humidifier, the machine will limit the temperature of the humidifier to prevent rainout, totally dependent of the room temperature..  If you have one of these machines, you need to contact your DME supplier or the manufacturer to find out how to disable this feature.  If you do this, you may have a rainout issue if your room is too cold.

 

I do get some rain out, especially after I started daisy chaining it.

 

7.  A big issue in many cases, but people just don't realize it.  Are you drinking enough water?  If you are not, you may have an issue regardless of how much water you can add to via your humidifier.  Remember, you need adequate amounts of water.  Other liquids don't count.

 

Probably not actually.  This is a very good suggestion and I will drink more at night.

 

8.  You may need a visit to your ENT and/or your PCP and be sure that there is nothing else going on. 

 

>I am interested to see how the second humidifier works.  If the first humidifier is working properly, I don't believe that the second will be able to add any appreciable humidity.  Again, the maximum water content of the air is primarily determined by the temperature of the air.  Any excess that you can squeeze into it will rainout.

 

I will let you know, especially once I start using the chin strap as well.

 

 

Regards,

Ray

 

John Krainik said:

Ray,

 

You don't mention the mask.  A full face mask almost always requires more humidity than a nasal device.  However, full face masks are often used when nasal devices are tried with a chin strap and a mouth leak persists.  If you need a full face mask for this reason then you need to find a way to fix the humidity issue.

There are a few people that suffer dryness regardless of what they do.  However, here are the things you can check and fix, if they apply, that may help.

 

1.  Assure that your humidifier is working.  Is the chamber warm? 

2.  Do you have a mouth leak?  Several things happen with a mouth leak that will cause dryness.  The machine tries to compensate for the leak.  This causes the air to flow through the humidifier faster, and as a result will not pick up as much of the moisture.  Try a chin strap.  If you still have a mouth leak even though the chin strap is tight, then you will require a full face mask.

3.  Do you have a mask leak?  The same thing happens as with a mouth leak.  Fix the leak.  A different mask may be necessary that doesn't leak with the machine running.  Different masks require different techniques to fix the leak.  Some have straps that help hold the mask in the proper position.  Different type seals can actually work better not tightened as much.  If you have facial hair, the only solution may be to shave.  Remember, you need to have a mask that works with your face.

4. Is your machine on the floor?  If it is, get it up to the height of your head.  People who keep their machine on the floor draw in air that is cooler.  The temperature of the air is a direct factor as to how much water the air can hold.  Cooler air is not able to carry as much water as warmer air.  Raising the machine to head level from a cold floor a can raise the temperature of the air going though your machine to take care of the issue.

5.  What is the temperature of the room?  Again as above, the temperature of the air limits the amount of water the air can hold.  When I worked for a DME, I found that most humidity deficit AND rainout issues went away when the patient kept his room 68 degress and higher.  In the sleep lab, I allow the patient to have the temperature to his/her liking.  The ones that keep the room >68 degrees have much less dryness issues, if any, and virtually no rainout issues.

6.  Check the humidifier on your machine.  I just found out last week, that at least one manufacturer has a mode on their humidifiers that limits the heat on the humidifier to prevent rainout.  No matter how high you turn up the humidifier, the machine will limit the temperature of the humidifier to prevent rainout, totally dependent of the room temperature..  If you have one of these machines, you need to contact your DME supplier or the manufacturer to find out how to disable this feature.  If you do this, you may have a rainout issue if your room is too cold.

7.  A big issue in many cases, but people just don't realize it.  Are you drinking enough water?  If you are not, you may have an issue regardless of how much water you can add to via your humidifier.  Remember, you need adequate amounts of water.  Other liquids don't count.

8.  You may need a visit to your ENT and/or your PCP and be sure that there is nothing else going on. 

I am interested to see how the second humidifier works.  If the first humidifier is working properly, I don't believe that the second will be able to add any appreciable humidity.  Again, the maximum water content of the air is primarily determined by the temperature of the air.  Any excess that you can squeeze into it will rainout.

 

Please let me know. 

 

John Krainik,CRT, RPSGT

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Permalink Reply by Bob on March 9, 2011 at 11:45pm

Adi said:

Hi John,

 

   Thanks for such a wonderfully complete response.

>You don't mention the mask.  A full face mask almost always requires more humidity than a nasal device.  However, full face masks are often used when nasal devices are tried with a chin strap and a mouth leak persists.  If you need a full face mask for this reason then you need to find a way to fix the humidity issue.

 

I have daisy chained the CPAP with an extra humidifier, so I won't run out of moisture at night.

 

>There are a few people that suffer dryness regardless of what they do.  However, here are the things you can check and fix, if they apply, that may help.

 

1.  Assure that your humidifier is working.  Is the chamber warm? 

Yes

2.  Do you have a mouth leak?  Several things happen with a mouth leak that will cause dryness.  The machine tries to compensate for the leak.  This causes the air to flow through the humidifier faster, and as a result will not pick up as much of the moisture.  Try a chin strap.  If you still have a mouth leak even though the chin strap is tight, then you will require a full face mask.

I am getting a chin strap to keep my mouth closed.

 

3.  Do you have a mask leak?  The same thing happens as with a mouth leak.  Fix the leak.  A different mask may be necessary that doesn't leak with the machine running.  Different masks require different techniques to fix the leak.  Some have straps that help hold the mask in the proper position.  Different type seals can actually work better not tightened as much.  If you have facial hair, the only solution may be to shave.  Remember, you need to have a mask that works with your face.

No, I don't have a leaky mask. I keep it pretty tight.

 

4. Is your machine on the floor?  If it is, get it up to the height of your head.  People who keep their machine on the floor draw in air that is cooler.  The temperature of the air is a direct factor as to how much water the air can hold.  Cooler air is not able to carry as much water as warmer air.  Raising the machine to head level from a cold floor a can raise the temperature of the air going though your machine to take care of the issue.

 

It is on a bed stand next to my head.

 

5.  What is the temperature of the room?  Again as above, the temperature of the air limits the amount of water the air can hold.  When I worked for a DME, I found that most humidity deficit AND rainout issues went away when the patient kept his room 68 degress and higher.  In the sleep lab, I allow the patient to have the temperature to his/her liking.  The ones that keep the room >68 degrees have much less dryness issues, if any, and virtually no rainout issues.

I don't control the temperature of the room as well as I should.  I have a studio in NYC with lots of windows.  I have started closing the blinds fully to moderate the room's dryness.

 

6.  Check the humidifier on your machine.  I just found out last week, that at least one manufacturer has a mode on their humidifiers that limits the heat on the humidifier to prevent rainout.  No matter how high you turn up the humidifier, the machine will limit the temperature of the humidifier to prevent rainout, totally dependent of the room temperature..  If you have one of these machines, you need to contact your DME supplier or the manufacturer to find out how to disable this feature.  If you do this, you may have a rainout issue if your room is too cold.

 

I do get some rain out, especially after I started daisy chaining it.

 

7.  A big issue in many cases, but people just don't realize it.  Are you drinking enough water?  If you are not, you may have an issue regardless of how much water you can add to via your humidifier.  Remember, you need adequate amounts of water.  Other liquids don't count.

 

Probably not actually.  This is a very good suggestion and I will drink more at night.

 

8.  You may need a visit to your ENT and/or your PCP and be sure that there is nothing else going on. 

 

>I am interested to see how the second humidifier works.  If the first humidifier is working properly, I don't believe that the second will be able to add any appreciable humidity.  Again, the maximum water content of the air is primarily determined by the temperature of the air.  Any excess that you can squeeze into it will rainout.

 

I will let you know, especially once I start using the chin strap as well.

 

 

Regards,

Ray

 

John Krainik said:

Ray,

 

You don't mention the mask.  A full face mask almost always requires more humidity than a nasal device.  However, full face masks are often used when nasal devices are tried with a chin strap and a mouth leak persists.  If you need a full face mask for this reason then you need to find a way to fix the humidity issue.

There are a few people that suffer dryness regardless of what they do.  However, here are the things you can check and fix, if they apply, that may help.

 

1.  Assure that your humidifier is working.  Is the chamber warm? 

2.  Do you have a mouth leak?  Several things happen with a mouth leak that will cause dryness.  The machine tries to compensate for the leak.  This causes the air to flow through the humidifier faster, and as a result will not pick up as much of the moisture.  Try a chin strap.  If you still have a mouth leak even though the chin strap is tight, then you will require a full face mask.

3.  Do you have a mask leak?  The same thing happens as with a mouth leak.  Fix the leak.  A different mask may be necessary that doesn't leak with the machine running.  Different masks require different techniques to fix the leak.  Some have straps that help hold the mask in the proper position.  Different type seals can actually work better not tightened as much.  If you have facial hair, the only solution may be to shave.  Remember, you need to have a mask that works with your face.

4. Is your machine on the floor?  If it is, get it up to the height of your head.  People who keep their machine on the floor draw in air that is cooler.  The temperature of the air is a direct factor as to how much water the air can hold.  Cooler air is not able to carry as much water as warmer air.  Raising the machine to head level from a cold floor a can raise the temperature of the air going though your machine to take care of the issue.

5.  What is the temperature of the room?  Again as above, the temperature of the air limits the amount of water the air can hold.  When I worked for a DME, I found that most humidity deficit AND rainout issues went away when the patient kept his room 68 degress and higher.  In the sleep lab, I allow the patient to have the temperature to his/her liking.  The ones that keep the room >68 degrees have much less dryness issues, if any, and virtually no rainout issues.

6.  Check the humidifier on your machine.  I just found out last week, that at least one manufacturer has a mode on their humidifiers that limits the heat on the humidifier to prevent rainout.  No matter how high you turn up the humidifier, the machine will limit the temperature of the humidifier to prevent rainout, totally dependent of the room temperature..  If you have one of these machines, you need to contact your DME supplier or the manufacturer to find out how to disable this feature.  If you do this, you may have a rainout issue if your room is too cold.

7.  A big issue in many cases, but people just don't realize it.  Are you drinking enough water?  If you are not, you may have an issue regardless of how much water you can add to via your humidifier.  Remember, you need adequate amounts of water.  Other liquids don't count.

8.  You may need a visit to your ENT and/or your PCP and be sure that there is nothing else going on. 

I am interested to see how the second humidifier works.  If the first humidifier is working properly, I don't believe that the second will be able to add any appreciable humidity.  Again, the maximum water content of the air is primarily determined by the temperature of the air.  Any excess that you can squeeze into it will rainout.

 

Please let me know. 

 

John Krainik,CRT, RPSGT

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