Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lisa B on January 31, 2012 at 12:02am

Is there a chance that Dr. Robson took Oral Appliance Therapy to a whole new level and forgot to send you the invite?  I don't believe you will find many patients speaking to patients using your vast mastery of dental terminology.  Don't under estimate the power of anecdotal testimonials compared to medical ego for patients seeking answers.   Interesting that the Fibro patient 2011 blog still credits OSB treatment that occurred in 2007 as providing the most overall improvement.  I have read her blogs before, and she could have a medical degree with all the therapy types she has tried.  The OSB technology has continuously matured since 2007. Unfortunately, I doubt you will be able to give OSB your blessing through on line research.  But it is reassuring to know that you are willing to help other dentists know their limits. 

tim mickiewicz d.d.s. said:

seriously????while i have found tremendous response with oral appliance therapy, and do note that patients spontaneously will position forward as we deprogram the muscles....10K+ for this therapy.   sorry but this appliance is of the same basic design of the herbst, no magic there.  while i applaud the good doctors effort in treating sleep and fibro, buy the connections etc, there was no mention of occlusion types ie:chronic posterior displacement, cone beam ct to evaluate for potential osteo arthritic joints  i could go on for hours.  there is no panacea.  i am glad the patients got better, but would love to see some data not anecdotal testimonials.  much like mccarty the chiropractor in colorado who "cures "tmj issues with his massive adjustments.  you can't change anatomy if there is a constricted arch, massive tori, and the multitude of predisposing factors that contribute to sleep issues, not to mention neurolgical disorders.  i will do  a bit more homework on this one.  for now, i just don't buy it.  this is my opinion only.  do your own research and good luck.  tim mickiewicz

Marcia Herman said:

I found this. It clearly outlines what was done and some prices - under $10,000 to $23,000. It shows photos of the devices too. Of course, the price may be lower or higher than what's been posted.

FWIW, I still haven't gotten any dentist info via email or the "Contact" area of the main website. Guess it's time to pick up the phone.

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Permalink Reply by MZH on January 31, 2012 at 9:11am

Thank you, Dr TM. I clearly have a lot of homework to do before 2 PM tomorrow. I'll be printing out your recommendations for homework reference. Your website taught me a thing or two already. 

I guess I'm still unclear what the differences are between the OBS device and "standard" devices. Maybe there is no standard one and designs are different, based on individual needs.

Well, off to study.

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Permalink Reply by MZH on January 31, 2012 at 1:25pm

What is full breath appliance?

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Permalink Reply by tim mickiewicz d.d.s. on January 31, 2012 at 1:50pm

in my humble opinion it makes no sense.  you can google fullbreath.com and see the amazing dr. keropian.  he keeps adding acrylic to the appliance to depress your tongue.  charges medicare as intermaxillarry fixation and repeats,,,,that fixation code is used only when your tounge is ripped ie in an accident.  bottom line not my favorite.  stick withsomnomed, oasys, maybe a tap-3.  herbst too expensive...i could go on but its literally a twwo day lecture.  someday i will video the whole thing and put it out there for the world to see.  time is so precious for me, i am slammed with patients.  i find this site to be most helpful for patients, that is my passion, tm

Marcia Herman said:

What is full breath appliance?

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Permalink Reply by tim mickiewicz d.d.s. on January 31, 2012 at 3:39pm

sorry to fall into doctor speak...but this is a pretty sophisticated audience that obviously is very proactive.  i love that.  frankly have little time to participatae in these exchanges, but this site has a ton of potential so i will help where i can.  i did not get the invite to the party which is rare because i read incessently every journal and even alternative things i can get my hands on.  i am a diplomate of the americcan academy of pain management, one of the few integrative pain organizations out there and their focus on alternative , integrative care that covers all disciplines is legendary, they also have a pretty cool website and magazine,   aapm.org.  the aadsm also has some of the best peer reviewed articles from around the world.  so i like to do my homework.  got to go but keep fighting the good fight.  i'm glad people get better.  btw even had platlet rich plasma injection on myself for cervial issues....dr. alderman a d.o. is great.  so my mind is open, but i always want proof....bad habits sometimes there is noe.  reading "pain,mind,meaning and medicine right now..j.giordano author.  east meets west, i like it, tm

Lisa B said:

Is there a chance that Dr. Robson took Oral Appliance Therapy to a whole new level and forgot to send you the invite?  I don't believe you will find many patients speaking to patients using your vast mastery of dental terminology.  Don't under estimate the power of anecdotal testimonials compared to medical ego for patients seeking answers.   Interesting that the Fibro patient 2011 blog still credits OSB treatment that occurred in 2007 as providing the most overall improvement.  I have read her blogs before, and she could have a medical degree with all the therapy types she has tried.  The OSB technology has continuously matured since 2007. Unfortunately, I doubt you will be able to give OSB your blessing through on line research.  But it is reassuring to know that you are willing to help other dentists know their limits. 

tim mickiewicz d.d.s. said:

seriously????while i have found tremendous response with oral appliance therapy, and do note that patients spontaneously will position forward as we deprogram the muscles....10K+ for this therapy.   sorry but this appliance is of the same basic design of the herbst, no magic there.  while i applaud the good doctors effort in treating sleep and fibro, buy the connections etc, there was no mention of occlusion types ie:chronic posterior displacement, cone beam ct to evaluate for potential osteo arthritic joints  i could go on for hours.  there is no panacea.  i am glad the patients got better, but would love to see some data not anecdotal testimonials.  much like mccarty the chiropractor in colorado who "cures "tmj issues with his massive adjustments.  you can't change anatomy if there is a constricted arch, massive tori, and the multitude of predisposing factors that contribute to sleep issues, not to mention neurolgical disorders.  i will do  a bit more homework on this one.  for now, i just don't buy it.  this is my opinion only.  do your own research and good luck.  tim mickiewicz

Marcia Herman said:

I found this. It clearly outlines what was done and some prices - under $10,000 to $23,000. It shows photos of the devices too. Of course, the price may be lower or higher than what's been posted.

FWIW, I still haven't gotten any dentist info via email or the "Contact" area of the main website. Guess it's time to pick up the phone.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by MZH on January 31, 2012 at 4:16pm

I looked Full Breath Solution and it looks to me like it would help those with tongues that won't get out of the way despite CPAP. (Like me on auto Bilevel)  My fear is that with my untreated TMJ and bruxism, I may not have many other options. I have to get the bruxism under control too. It's 4 PM and my right jaw/teeth are still hurting from last night., This is rare, but it happened yesterday. Ugh - but tine will tell.

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Permalink Reply by ZolliStar on January 31, 2012 at 4:27pm

Marcia, you have my sympathies on this.

I had a college roommate with bruxism. If you think her jaws hurt, you should have known what it is like to sleep near a person with bruxism. It was excruciating for me because I "felt" how awful it was for Pat -- who was, of course, serenely asleep and GRINDING away.

Quite an experience.

Marcia Herman said:

I looked Full Breath Solution and it looks to me like it would help those with tongues that won't get out of the way despite CPAP. (Like me on auto Bilevel)  My fear is that with my untreated TMJ and bruxism, I may not have many other options. I have to get the bruxism under control too. It's 4 PM and my right jaw/teeth are still hurting from last night., This is rare, but it happened yesterday. Ugh - but tine will tell.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by MZH on January 31, 2012 at 4:37pm

I bet she was darned sore a lot of days! I just asked my husband if he heard anything but he was having a rare night of good sleep. Phew! (He doesn't have apnea but he sure sleeps lightly.)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by tim mickiewicz d.d.s. on January 31, 2012 at 5:34pm

tim mickiewicz d.d.s. said:

in my humble opinion it makes no sense.  you can google fullbreath.com and see the amazing dr. keropian.  he keeps adding acrylic to the appliance to depress your tongue.  charges medicare as intermaxillarry fixation and repeats,,,,that fixation code is used only when your tounge is ripped ie in an accident.  bottom line not my favorite.  stick withsomnomed, oasys, maybe a tap-3.  herbst too expensive...i could go on but its literally a twwo day lecture.  someday i will video the whole thing and put it out there for the world to see.  time is so precious for me, i am slammed with patients.  i find this site to be most helpful for patients, that is my passion, tm

Marcia Herman said:

What is full breath appliance?

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