"please keep me updated about oximeters "
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Does CPAP Weaken Tongue?
I'll preface all this by saying SleepGuide.com is probably the only place on the internet where you can have an intelligent discussion about anything that might cast CPAP in a negative light, given the financial interests of the other venues out there for education and support (read: people who want to sell you CPAP). But I went to my doctor the other day and we got into a debate about whether if my next sleep study shows that my weight loss has reduced my AHI to acceptable levels, whether I should get off CPAP. I argued against it, since my perception is that everyone has obstructed breathing at some point when they sleep and that positive airway pressure can only help keep the body oxygenated and healthy, even if the level of obstruction does not rise to the clinically approved definition of an apnea or hypopnea event. The doctor disagreed, saying that reliance on CPAP reduces muscle tone in the tongue and that it can actually make you worse off. He likened it to wearing a cast on your foot that keeps the foot immobilized -- sure that is needed at times, but when you don't use those muscles, you lose them.
What do you all think?
Views: 2305
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clueless in Redwood Shores on
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I would be extremely leery of taking the doc's advice without wearing a recording pulse oximeter and checking O2 sat levels frequently. I was pronounced "free of apnea" at the end of a study performed by my sleep doc after a series of surgeries done by an unrelated surgeon which at this stage I wish I'd never started. (Cured me of much of my sense of taste and little else!)
I went off CPAP therapy for too many years. When, at a doctors suggestion, I was retested, my apnea was worse than at any point previously tested.
Marcia, thanks for the great article. I hope I can be more diligent at those exercises than I have than at either gym exercises and at my didgeridoo, which I've never learned to play. (That instrument is also said to produce muscle tone sufficient to allow cessation of CPAP.)
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Permalink Reply by Danny Heller on
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I think the problem is the rather arrogant presumption that CPAP is the Holy Grail and that it works for everybody. The implication being, that if you don't get results from CPAP, it is your fault. The word “non-compliant” is wielded to browbeat those users for whom CPAP is ineffective. Well, let me tell you, I gave CPAP (and its cousins, AutoPAP and BiPAP) extensive trials during which I was 100% “compliant” - and still got nowhere. Ditto, a custom-fitted oral appliance. Finally, I opted for surgery, from which I am currently recovering. From the beginning (i.e., my first sleep study in 2008), it has been a brutal, long, hard struggle, with many a wrong turn, but hopefully the surgery will bring me some relief in the near future.
BTW, Dr. Strangelove is before my time, too, but I'm a bit of a movie buff, so I know the reference.
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Hmm.. is he saying our tongue is exercising normally while we are sleeping? What IS our tongue doing while we are asleep ? Isn't it asleep too? Does it not relax when we are asleep and relaxed?
I have a false upper plate ( dental)..that I have had for 6-7 yrs now..and I don't think I WILL EVER get fully used to..so my tongue is working overtime ALL day long. I HOPE it gets some rest while I am sleeping. My brain keeps trying to tell my tongue to just chill out and forget about it..but I have always heard " the tongue has a mind of it's own" ......
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Permalink Reply by Don Dodge on
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Watch it. You won't regret it, even if you still miss the allusion. Great movie.
Mike said:uh oh. need clarification of the reference to Dr. Strangelove. Not to date you, but I'm 38 years old, and that's a little before my time.
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Being just a well-read layman, I wouldn't recommend that anyone stop using their CPAP for fear of weakening their tongue muscles. That being said, it wouldn't shock me that any multi-pronged approach to tackle OSA always seems more prudent. CPAP machines do have their negative impacts, but the positives in far more cases counterbalance the negatives. I've seen some posted the use of tongue exercises and there is research that they positively impact SA sufferers. As for me, I'm going to address this potential 'tongue weakening' with a LipTrainer and I hope to post my personal experiences in the coming weeks.
In Health
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I understood that some Apnea's are caused by your tongue relaxing when you sleep and dropping back into your throat.If so how can your tongue be exercising when you are asleep?
Joe
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Joe,
Tongue exercises can only be done while conscious.
http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/sleep-apnea/news/20090507/tong...
Regards,
Jay
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That is one interesting article there.
Marcia Herman said:Well, this article seems to agree with the doc - well, sort of. The news is excellent, BTW!
FWIW, I'm seeing a speech therapist on Monday for the exact mouth, tongue, and throat issues. Can't wait to see what happens then!
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Wow, lots of questions.
All I know is that he said that speech therapy can give a diagnosis of how the tongue and throat are working - or not working - and that exercises can help the throat and tongue so that they do the right thing day and night. (The tongue isn't exercising at night, BTW.)
He also didn't say I should stop CPAP (Bilevel in my case) or that it would let me stop using the machine; the article said that. He said that XPAP would work better if the tongue and throat were in better shape.
I would try going off XPAP after adequate exercise time but use a recording pulse oximeter that has a low O2 warning signal. Getting off the machine w/o using the oximeter is a bad idea.
The weird thing about all this is that I played wind instruments for many years but I may now have a problem. Maybe I should take up the didgeridoo. I might have a knack for it. LOL
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Didgerdoo...cool!
Marcia Herman said:Wow, lots of questions.
All I know is that he said that speech therapy can give a diagnosis of how the tongue and throat are working - or not working - and that exercises can help the throat and tongue so that they do the right thing day and night. (The tongue isn't exercising at night, BTW.)
He also didn't say I should stop CPAP (Bilevel in my case) or that it would let me stop using the machine; the article said that. He said that XPAP would work better if the tongue and throat were in better shape.
I would try going off XPAP after adequate exercise time but use a recording pulse oximeter that has a low O2 warning signal. Getting off the machine w/o using the oximeter is a bad idea.
The weird thing about all this is that I played wind instruments for many years but I may now have a problem. Maybe I should take up the didgeridoo. I might have a knack for it. LOL
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I'm from Australia and only the Aborigines play the Didgerdoo, I'll stick with my best friend my CPAP.
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