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Kay Day left a comment for Kay Day
"September 1, 2014 My apologies to Sleep Guide for not participating in a long time. In January 2012 I started classes at the local community college (my husband is an instructor there, and my tuition is refunded when my grades are above a C. My…"
Sep 1
Mary Z posted a discussion

Sleep apnea increases risk of osteoporosis

Sleep apnea/osteoporosis study finds “increased” health riskA recently published study may have found a connection between obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and osteoporosis, marking yet another health…See More
Aug 23
Mary Z replied to ZolliStar's discussion Non-invasion approach that can relieve mild sleep apnea
"Hi ZolliStar, I've heard before that speech therapy, or singing lessons can help sleep apnea.  The problem at that time was there was no way to determine which exercises help.  Getting research done, rather than anecdotal would be…"
Jul 28
ZolliStar posted a discussion

Non-invasion approach that can relieve mild sleep apnea

Some people report that singing -- singing! -- really helps their sleep apnea. Dr. Stephen Park said that myology (which are exercises to strengthen muscles around the inside of one's mouth area) helps some. I think singing would be better.  If you read all the FAQs on this (click below), I think you'll agree that it makes sense for some. Maybe you.http://www.singingforsnorers.com/index.htmSee More
Jul 28
ZolliStar posted a discussion
Jul 20
liz4cps commented on liz4cps's group Prince William Co, VA support group
"I talked to Kimberlie at the Novant Sleep lab last week (at Prince William Hospital) and she said they would not be holding any meetings this year but are planning to start holding meetings again next year.  I'll let you know when we have…"
Jul 14
richard graham posted a status
"I just have mask called the Wisp. Hope it works. Anybody have experience with it. I have an ultra mirage nasal mask and get leaks at brid"
Jul 9
Andy posted a discussion

Resmed S8 AutoSet II - No Longer Collecting Data??

Hi All,First off, my apologies for not checking in for a long time.I've been using my Resmed S8 AutoSet II for almost 3 years! I feel great, have lost almost 30 lbs, am no longer sleepy during the day, sleep through the night, and have my short-term memory back.Yay!I've told my doctors that I'm the "poster child" for Sleep Apnea and CPAPs! It's been, and continues to be, such an amazing experience that I want everyone to know!Everything has been going well in CPAP-land, but in the last few…See More
Jul 7
hifay replied to richard graham's discussion mouth breathing
"What type of chin straps?"
Jul 6
Ginny Edmundson replied to Ginny Edmundson's discussion Scheduled for evaluation and possible procedure next day
"No real improvement in sleep study.  Just not having to use cervical neck color.  What a bummer. Surgeon wants another sleep study in about a month or so (home one) Not sure if will do or not. "
Jun 22
Mary Z replied to Ginny Edmundson's discussion Scheduled for evaluation and possible procedure next day
"Ginny, how are you doing after the tongue procedure?"
Jun 22
Mary Z posted a discussion

AHI finally under five.

I have been on CPAP since March 2008 and had a good AHI when I started therapy (under 5).Then my AHI started getting worse- for a while it stayed in the 20's, then we got it to the high teens.  Nothing we did would help.  My doctor said it was due to the meds I take.  For a couple of years I just tolerated the high AHI.  I did another sleep study and changed to an ASV machine.  For two years I still had a AHI around 11-13.  Then all of a sudden - a month ago I noticed my AHI was running five or…See More
Jun 22
ZolliStar replied to richard graham's discussion mouth breathing
"FWIW, I've been alternating between my mouth device and my APAP. I haven't used humidity at all when I use the APAP -- and don't miss it, either. "
Jun 14
richard graham replied to richard graham's discussion mouth breathing
"I still use humidity but less of it. It seems to be working OK.."
Jun 14
ZolliStar replied to richard graham's discussion mouth breathing
"I rarely use the humidifier. I think it's less necessary during the summer when there is humidity.   I also switch between my mouth device and the APAP.  I like each for different reasons. Not sure with which I sleep better, though.…"
May 21
Mary Z replied to richard graham's discussion sick again
"I've been doing well.  I think you were going to try the cpap without humidity- did that help at all?  I haven't had a cold for a couple of years."
May 14
Ginny Edmundson replied to richard graham's discussion sick again
"CPAP seems to cause stuffiness in many of us.  ANother reason I hate it so much!Do you rinse your nose with saline once a day…maybe before you go to bed for the night? "
May 5
richard graham replied to richard graham's discussion sick again
"I do wake up stuffed up most days"
May 5
richard graham replied to richard graham's discussion sick again
"I do have non allergic rhinitis. Now I'm thinking that's probably it because I only feel that way for a day or 2. Thank you"
May 4
Ginny Edmundson replied to richard graham's discussion sick again
"I have been lucky.  Not one cold past three years. Could some of your problem be allergies?"
May 4

I'll preface all this by saying SleepGuide.com is probably the only place on the internet where you can have an intelligent discussion about anything that might cast CPAP in a negative light, given the financial interests of the other venues out there for education and support (read: people who want to sell you CPAP).  But I went to my doctor the other day and we got into a debate about whether if my next sleep study shows that my weight loss has reduced my AHI to acceptable levels, whether I should get off CPAP.   I argued against it, since my perception is that everyone has obstructed breathing at some point when they sleep and that positive airway pressure can only help keep the body oxygenated and healthy, even if the level of obstruction does not rise to the clinically approved definition of an apnea or hypopnea event.  The doctor disagreed, saying that reliance on CPAP reduces muscle tone in the tongue and that it can actually make you worse off.  He likened it to wearing a cast on your foot that keeps the foot immobilized -- sure that is needed at times, but when you don't use those muscles, you lose them.  

What do you all think?

Tags: cpap-weakens-tongue

Views: 1572

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I agree with you. I can't even imagine not using my CPAP at night. I can't sleep soundly at all if I for some reason don't use it, which is not too often. I go into panic mode at just thinking that I may stop breathing; my snoring even before I started using CPAP (around 13 years now) was to the point that my wife could not sleep in the same room, so I know that it has been a life saver.

I don't believe it has weakened my tongue or muscle tone in that area. Yes, I am overweight, but am working on losing, but even before I gained this weight, I relied on the CPAP to breathe, and yes, maybe, peace of mind!

I don't think I will ever discontinue my CPAP, and I don't have a problem with that at all.

Well, here's my non-medical perspective...

I wasn't diagnosed with restless leg syndrome during my study, so I figure my feet, limbs, etc. are mostly immobile when I sleep. So what if my tongue is too?

During the day when I'm awake, I'm exercising my muscles, including my tongue muscles. That should be helping the tone.

I'm not saying there isn't any impact on tongue muscle tone, but it seems to me you also have to balance that against the negatives of the remaining apneas.

Most medical treatments have at least some risk of side effects. However, people generally accept them when/while the benefits exceed the risks.

Mike, Is your doc just flapping his tongue or does he actually have some evidence to back up this statement? Sounds like it is something he made up.

Anecdotally I can say CPAP made my tongue stronger. CPAP gave me renewed vigor and energy to stay awake longer and interact more socially which meant more exercising of my tongue. haha

If I didn't know any better, Id thought that I was listening to General Ripper from the movie Dr. Strangelove. With that said, I've been using cpap for 16 years and my tongue is as strong as it was then. Don't ask me to prove it :-)

uh oh.  need clarification of the reference to Dr. Strangelove.  Not to date you, but I'm 38 years old, and that's a little before my time.

Jeffrey Donaldson said:

If I didn't know any better, Id thought that I was listening to General Ripper from the movie Dr. Strangelove. With that said, I've been using cpap for 16 years and my tongue is as strong as it was then. Don't ask me to prove it :-)



Banyon said:

Mike, Is your doc just flapping his tongue or does he actually have some evidence to back up this statement? Sounds like it is something he made up.

Anecdotally I can say CPAP made my tongue stronger. CPAP gave me renewed vigor and energy to stay awake longer and interact more socially which meant more exercising of my tongue. haha

Flap, flap.  Thanks for the laugh.  After almost 6 years of using a CPAP,  I think my tongue is as strong as ever.  My guess is that when I'm running my mouth, some people would be happier if it was weaker. 



Rette Tyrrel said:

Flap, flap.  Thanks for the laugh.  After almost 6 years of using a CPAP,  I think my tongue is as strong as ever.  My guess is that when I'm running my mouth, some people would be happier if it was weaker. 

Banyon said:

Mike, Is your doc just flapping his tongue or does he actually have some evidence to back up this statement? Sounds like it is something he made up.

Anecdotally I can say CPAP made my tongue stronger. CPAP gave me renewed vigor and energy to stay awake longer and interact more socially which meant more exercising of my tongue. haha

Flap, flap.  Thanks for the laugh.  After almost 6 years of using a CPAP,  I think my tongue is as strong as ever.  My guess is that when I'm running my mouth, some people would be happier if it was weaker. 

A cast is on 24 hr/7 days a week, CPAP is not. Without some evidence, the similarity seems silly.

Well, this article seems to agree with the doc - well, sort of. The news is excellent, BTW!

FWIW, I'm seeing a speech therapist on Monday for the exact mouth, tongue, and throat issues. Can't wait to see what happens then!

I'm afraid to sleep without my CPAP. I've learned of three sleep apnea deaths since my June, 2011 diagnosis.Put me on Mike's side of the line on this.

BUT I would love to learn what your doctor says, Marcia. The article was intriguing. I'm going to start doing the exercises: I'd like to be able to take short naps without "suiting" up and might consider doing so if these exercises were truly effective. Or even just effective.

Marcia Herman said:

Well, this article seems to agree with the doc - well, sort of. The news is excellent, BTW!

FWIW, I'm seeing a speech therapist on Monday for the exact mouth, tongue, and throat issues. Can't wait to see what happens then!

I will attempt to remember to post what happens at the visit! I don't want to sleep w/o my machine either; I hate waking up with 02 levels in the low to mid 80s. Ugh.

And interrmittant hypoxia weakens your cardiovascular system, metabolic system, heart and brain.  Personally, I'd rather risk weakening my tongue than my heart and brain.  Plus a single apnea will kill you if it lasts long enough. 

I'll keep my APAP machine, thanks.  I consider it my best friend and saviour and wouldn't dream of leaving home without it.

Sarah Gorman

P.S. Was that your PCP or sleep doc? ( Scary either way.)

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