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liz4cps commented on liz4cps's group Prince William Co, VA support group
"BluePoint Medical* holding their next Remedy event on June 4 with Terry Cralle, RN on "Sleep in the Mordern Family".  They will also be checking CPAP machines and providing breakfast. Click on link above for more…"
May 7
Dan Lyons posted a discussion

CPAP & Dry Mouth

In recent months, I have developed extreme dry mouth as a result of the CPAP.  I am a mouth breather when using CPAP.Recently, I saw an advertisement for the symptoms of dry mouth, but as usual, when I need the information to have a discussion with both my primary care  physician and my dentist I haven't seen the ad. Has anyone else seen the ad and can anyone remember the info in the ad?Thanks in advance,DanSee More
Mar 30
richard graham posted a status
"My deductible is double what a machine is online but I can't get the machine set up. Any ideas?"
Mar 10
BeeAsleep posted a status
"Hi all. I am just checking in and saying hi after being gone for a long time. I am doing GREAT! Just got a new machine and mask. Feel like I"
Jan 23
BeeAsleep updated their profile
Jan 23
99 replied to Fred's discussion CPAP - cure worse than the disease
"Do not turn light on as this hinder you from falling asleep or choose red light instead which do not afect your sleep"
Oct 27, 2015
99 left a comment for Joan Williams Rice
"Hi Joan visiting pelham and I have osa"
Oct 27, 2015
99 left a comment for martha crabtree
"Hi maths visiting pelham "
Oct 27, 2015
99 left a comment for Rhonda Harrison
"Hi Rhondda I am visiting pelham and have osa "
Oct 27, 2015
99 posted a discussion

Leaky gut

Do you have a leaky gutHow would you knowA telltale sign for leaky gut is Athletes footI wish to ask do you have or suffer from itThe reason I ask is maybe this is a common denominatorJust text yes or text noAnd if you are the first to text also keep a tallyExample38 yes 0 noYour input would alter the tally39 yes 0 noSo now I will input first1 yes. 0 noSee More
Sep 26, 2015
richard graham posted a status
"For the first time in a while I got a whole night sleep with my machine but woke up beat and left side of my head feels weird, not sure if"
Sep 2, 2015
Brendan Duffy posted a status
"How did you slhttp://blog.aastweb.org/winners-and-losers-food-for-thought-sleep-and-athletic-success?utm_campaign=subscribers&utm_source=hs_"
Jul 9, 2015
Pat Kniel updated their profile
Jul 7, 2015
ZolliStar replied to Fred's discussion CPAP - cure worse than the disease
"I'm wondering: what prompted you to consider whether you have sleep apnea in the first place? Also, waking throughout the night isn't uncommon especially as we (*sigh*) age.  I seem to every 90 minutes or so. This pattern probably…"
Jun 27, 2015
ZolliStar replied to ZolliStar's discussion New mouth device on the market
"You can try this website:  http://zyppah.com/ I have a MAD (mandibular advancement device). Dr. Steven Park evaluated my mouth and throat (not everyone can use a MAD, it turns out) and pronounced me a candidate for it. The truth?  I…"
Jun 27, 2015
Mary Z replied to ZolliStar's discussion New mouth device on the market
"The link didn't work so me so I couldn't see the product.  I do have experience with a supposedly reliable boil and bite device.  I should know by now I have a small mouth and nothing regular size fits.  I don't think…"
Jun 27, 2015
richard graham replied to ZolliStar's discussion New mouth device on the market
"If I thought something could work other than this lousy cpap that would be awesome"
May 22, 2015
richard graham posted a status
"I moved and have been sick a lot and can't use cpap because of cough and I'm depressed a lot"
Apr 26, 2015
Fred posted a discussion

CPAP - cure worse than the disease

It's ironic that before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea in 2000, I had no problem sleeping 8-9 hours a night. If I did wake up during the night, I had no problem falling right back to sleep, and I wasn't tired during the day.From the first night I brought home the CPAP I haven't had one decent night's sleep. Not one. I don't have any problem falling asleep, but I can't stay asleep. At first I was waking up after 4-5 hours and couldn't get back to sleep for a couple of hours. Now it's more like…See More
Apr 13, 2015
Fred updated their profile
Apr 13, 2015

I'll preface all this by saying SleepGuide.com is probably the only place on the internet where you can have an intelligent discussion about anything that might cast CPAP in a negative light, given the financial interests of the other venues out there for education and support (read: people who want to sell you CPAP).  But I went to my doctor the other day and we got into a debate about whether if my next sleep study shows that my weight loss has reduced my AHI to acceptable levels, whether I should get off CPAP.   I argued against it, since my perception is that everyone has obstructed breathing at some point when they sleep and that positive airway pressure can only help keep the body oxygenated and healthy, even if the level of obstruction does not rise to the clinically approved definition of an apnea or hypopnea event.  The doctor disagreed, saying that reliance on CPAP reduces muscle tone in the tongue and that it can actually make you worse off.  He likened it to wearing a cast on your foot that keeps the foot immobilized -- sure that is needed at times, but when you don't use those muscles, you lose them.  

What do you all think?

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I agree with you. I can't even imagine not using my CPAP at night. I can't sleep soundly at all if I for some reason don't use it, which is not too often. I go into panic mode at just thinking that I may stop breathing; my snoring even before I started using CPAP (around 13 years now) was to the point that my wife could not sleep in the same room, so I know that it has been a life saver.

I don't believe it has weakened my tongue or muscle tone in that area. Yes, I am overweight, but am working on losing, but even before I gained this weight, I relied on the CPAP to breathe, and yes, maybe, peace of mind!

I don't think I will ever discontinue my CPAP, and I don't have a problem with that at all.

Well, here's my non-medical perspective...

I wasn't diagnosed with restless leg syndrome during my study, so I figure my feet, limbs, etc. are mostly immobile when I sleep. So what if my tongue is too?

During the day when I'm awake, I'm exercising my muscles, including my tongue muscles. That should be helping the tone.

I'm not saying there isn't any impact on tongue muscle tone, but it seems to me you also have to balance that against the negatives of the remaining apneas.

Most medical treatments have at least some risk of side effects. However, people generally accept them when/while the benefits exceed the risks.

Mike, Is your doc just flapping his tongue or does he actually have some evidence to back up this statement? Sounds like it is something he made up.

Anecdotally I can say CPAP made my tongue stronger. CPAP gave me renewed vigor and energy to stay awake longer and interact more socially which meant more exercising of my tongue. haha

If I didn't know any better, Id thought that I was listening to General Ripper from the movie Dr. Strangelove. With that said, I've been using cpap for 16 years and my tongue is as strong as it was then. Don't ask me to prove it :-)

uh oh.  need clarification of the reference to Dr. Strangelove.  Not to date you, but I'm 38 years old, and that's a little before my time.

Jeffrey Donaldson said:

If I didn't know any better, Id thought that I was listening to General Ripper from the movie Dr. Strangelove. With that said, I've been using cpap for 16 years and my tongue is as strong as it was then. Don't ask me to prove it :-)



Banyon said:

Mike, Is your doc just flapping his tongue or does he actually have some evidence to back up this statement? Sounds like it is something he made up.

Anecdotally I can say CPAP made my tongue stronger. CPAP gave me renewed vigor and energy to stay awake longer and interact more socially which meant more exercising of my tongue. haha

Flap, flap.  Thanks for the laugh.  After almost 6 years of using a CPAP,  I think my tongue is as strong as ever.  My guess is that when I'm running my mouth, some people would be happier if it was weaker. 



Rette Tyrrel said:

Flap, flap.  Thanks for the laugh.  After almost 6 years of using a CPAP,  I think my tongue is as strong as ever.  My guess is that when I'm running my mouth, some people would be happier if it was weaker. 

Banyon said:

Mike, Is your doc just flapping his tongue or does he actually have some evidence to back up this statement? Sounds like it is something he made up.

Anecdotally I can say CPAP made my tongue stronger. CPAP gave me renewed vigor and energy to stay awake longer and interact more socially which meant more exercising of my tongue. haha

Flap, flap.  Thanks for the laugh.  After almost 6 years of using a CPAP,  I think my tongue is as strong as ever.  My guess is that when I'm running my mouth, some people would be happier if it was weaker. 

A cast is on 24 hr/7 days a week, CPAP is not. Without some evidence, the similarity seems silly.

Well, this article seems to agree with the doc - well, sort of. The news is excellent, BTW!

FWIW, I'm seeing a speech therapist on Monday for the exact mouth, tongue, and throat issues. Can't wait to see what happens then!

I'm afraid to sleep without my CPAP. I've learned of three sleep apnea deaths since my June, 2011 diagnosis.Put me on Mike's side of the line on this.

BUT I would love to learn what your doctor says, Marcia. The article was intriguing. I'm going to start doing the exercises: I'd like to be able to take short naps without "suiting" up and might consider doing so if these exercises were truly effective. Or even just effective.

Marcia Herman said:

Well, this article seems to agree with the doc - well, sort of. The news is excellent, BTW!

FWIW, I'm seeing a speech therapist on Monday for the exact mouth, tongue, and throat issues. Can't wait to see what happens then!

I will attempt to remember to post what happens at the visit! I don't want to sleep w/o my machine either; I hate waking up with 02 levels in the low to mid 80s. Ugh.

And interrmittant hypoxia weakens your cardiovascular system, metabolic system, heart and brain.  Personally, I'd rather risk weakening my tongue than my heart and brain.  Plus a single apnea will kill you if it lasts long enough. 

I'll keep my APAP machine, thanks.  I consider it my best friend and saviour and wouldn't dream of leaving home without it.

Sarah Gorman

P.S. Was that your PCP or sleep doc? ( Scary either way.)

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